Does time exist?

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Saint, Nov 2, 2020.

  1. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    4,143
    Time is a physical entity, right?
    We use clock to measure time, but what clock shows us is movement.
    So, what is time?
    Could it be an illusion?

    Baby -> Kid -> Teenager -> Middle age -> Oldman

    This is process changes, but not time itself.
     
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  3. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    Time is a dimension, like up, right, forward, etc.
     
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  5. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Time is a result (measurement) of duration of movement (change). It has no existence of its own.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2020
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  7. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    Time can be mapped to devices that change in a regular way; time measurement is possible because we know how to build deterministic machines/devices.

    Saying time has no existence of its own is I think a conclusion that can't be drawn from measurements (on their own). Time itself doesn't change, but clocks have different rates depending on gravitational potential, relative motion etc.
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    And when the deterministic devise fails, what happens to the excess time?
    No, you are still looking at this backwards. You cannot measure time at all except in relation to and as a result of the existence of a physical object, such as the Universe.
     
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  9. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    Nothing happens to it, something happens to the clock.


    I can't say, unlike some people, that time no longer exists when a clock stops or breaks down.
    No I'm not.
    Existence is not sufficient; you also need motion.
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Yes and the clock was keeping time, no? When the clock stops, what happens to the time it was keeping. Still there but not being "kept" anymore? Where does it go? What then is the unobserved time measuring? The duration of not being measured?
    Let remind you of the definition of time.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time
    Not at all, any action or condition that has "duration" requires time (temporal permission).

    You do know that when the clock stops space time continues? Time only stops for the clock as a tic toc, the clock itself continues to exist and therefore has an associated timeline, regardless of its ability to do work.

    But consider this; if you request too much time on you toaster, your toast will burn to a black crisp. That is the human artificially programming the mechanical application of too much duration of time, in the process of toasting your bread.

    Given that the toaster always delivers a regulated amount of energy, your demand for too much duration/time resulted in a symmetry breaking in the act of making a piece of toast....

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    Last edited: Nov 3, 2020
  11. arfa brane call me arf Valued Senior Member

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    Shit. I'd better check the toaster.
     
  12. Asexperia Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, time is a physical entity.
    Time is my favorite subject, but ...
     
  13. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    Physical entity? What do you mean?
     
  14. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Without an “observer,” does time exist?
     
  15. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Ask yourself whether your boiled egg goes on cooking when you leave the kitchen.
     
  16. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    They do. But from a science perspective, is that a physical reality or an illusion? I mean, the eggs are boiling whether I’m staring at the pot or not. But, is it just something we have applied to understand the flow of events?
     
  17. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Events flow whether we are there or not. Time is change. Change occurs whether you are there are not.
    Are you implying time stands still when you leave the room?

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    What if your dog stays in the room? Does time then flow?
     
  18. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Does time exist in the room when there is nothing in the room?
     
  19. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Define nothing.
    No, don't. I'm not interested in this game.
     
  20. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    OK, so we agree change occurs in nature whether or not an observer is present.

    Time is our yardstick for measuring change, so that we can relate different change processes, occurring at different rates, in a consistent way). Just as length gives us a yardstick for comparing intervals separating objects spatially, in a consistent way.

    Yet, for some reason, nobody ever asks whether length exists.

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    In a way, it doesn't. It's an abstract concept, invented by human beings to make sense of their world. But it's a footling discussion that interests no one.

    Time on the other hand, gets people worked up. It's a bit like magnets in physics: anything invisible is a huge mystery to some people.
     
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  21. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    (Bolded for emphasis by me)

    Lol Yes, that’s so true!

    The trippy thing about time (in my opinion) is that while it’s illusory, we depend on it for our existence.
     
  22. Asexperia Valued Senior Member

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    WHAT IS THERE BETWEEN TWO SEQUENTIAL EVENTS?


    Time is the physical quantity that separates two sequential events or moments. The past is invariable and the future is inevitable. These qualities inherent in time confirm its existence. Between two simultaneous events there is no time. Events can be independent or belong to the evolution of the same change.

    For example, since the discovery of America (1492) to the independence of the United States (1776), "there is" an independent time. Since sunrise to sunset "there is" a time of evolution (day). Notice that I use the expression there be because time is an objective, but imperceptible physical quantity (magnitive).

    With the measurement of time (duration) a space (1D) is represented that is occupied by the evolution of changes. Changes, as they evolve, fill that space (time).

    The material basis of the measurement of time are periodic changes.

    From: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/elvis-sibilias-philochrony-theory-of-everything.162830/

    Asexperia
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
  23. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Aha, I didn't say it was illusory. I said it is an abstract concept, which is a bit different.

    If someone asks you: "Does length exist?", how would you answer? Personally I would say, "length of what?" To say length exists, in the abstract, without the length of anything being in question, seems meaningless.

    I do not think it is sensible to treat time as illusory. But, like length, time only has concrete existence in relation to something being measured.
     
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