Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Syzygys, Apr 17, 2011.
I don't have you on ignore yet.
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Utter BS. You'd have to never let your dog off the leash to accomplish this. Dogs have finely tuned noses, and sure, you can get their attention if they smell faint odours of females in season, but fresh, no, they have mating on their mind and they aren't going to sit if there's an option to mate. You just don't know who is walking what around the next corner. If your intact dog meets a female in season, he's going to go for it, trust me.
Also, the reason we have two of the dogs we have, is because the fence between two properties just wasn't high enough to deal with a horny male. He cleared 2m of fencing to get to the neighbours bitch in season. We took two of the puppies, from a litter on nine, the owners of the bitch were overwhelmed (overwhelped? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ).
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Our neutered female is still a bossy madam, can't see that it's changed her personality at all Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
I agree, our Lhasa Apso is is definitely the boss dog, she will dominant both the red heeler x shepherd and the shepherd x rotty. I just hope I can find a way to make sure she realises she's not 3rd in charge when my partner and I have kids
Neutering humans prevents over population, which diminishes neglect and suffering.
Also if you have a bunch of intact male humans, they are more likely to fight than neutered humans. They are going to get into a few fights purely through testosterone in their lifetime, which means bites, pain, possible infections, hospital bills and getting arrested. The latter is when many humans get abandoned.
Taking off a human's balls has very definite positive effects.
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"He cleared 2m of fencing to get to the neighbours bitch in season. "
Thats one horny dog.
Sadly Enmos...you're speaking fact...
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I wish we could, it would lower my taxes. I'm paying to keep all those chav teens around here pushing prams!
I know and I didn't even want to bring that up. In a small house a labrador's tail can cause serious damage, anything that isn't tied down, lighter than 10 pounds and about 2-3 feet from the ground is going to fly....
Also specially great danes' tail do break, when hit harder things. I remember seeing a great dane with 3 obvious breaks in his tail... So we could argue it is for his health...
Here is an article making the case for tail docking:
Why Are Dog's Tails Docked?
1. To avoid tail damage
A number of working gundog breeds have to hunt game through heavy vegetation and thick brambles, where their fast tail action can easily lead to torn and bleeding tails which are painful and extremely difficult to treat. Docking the end of the tail eliminates the risk of injury.
Working terriers are docked for the same reason. In addition, terriers which are bred to hunt below ground for purposes such as fox control, have their tails docked to a length which is more practical when working in a confined space.
2. For reasons of hygiene
Long haired, thick coated breeds like the Yorkshire Terrier and Old English Sheepdog are docked to avoid the hair around the base of the tail becoming fouled by faeces. Even with constant grooming and washing, such fouling is unpleasant. If allowed to get out of hand, it can lead to severe problems of hygiene, or even flystrike and subsequent infestation by maggots.
Good luck with that. My oldest dog is an Alpha male and he decided from the gate that he had more authority than my younger brother, who was 5 when we got him. He pushed him around, laid on him, sat on him, never listened to anything my brother told him to do because he felt like he didn't have to. Now nearly ten years later. My dog still views my brother as beneath him. He rarely listens to my brother, hits him, and still lays on top of him. He's alomst 10 years old now, so I doubt he's going to change his attitude. In fact he's gotten worse. I think Alphas are always Alphas, they just put up with you because it makes you happy.
I guess that link says it all (Good Info)
Also a quick comment about the hygiene part, I used to have a couple of small dogs a silky & yorky. If I could have kept them on dry food all the time, there wouldn't have been a problem, but it's damn hard not allow your 4 legged family members a few table scraps now and then. This would cause their poo to be soft and gooey. There's nothing worse than watching your dog come in the doggy door put his butt down on the carpet and start scooting. Sometimes it would dry hard if they didn't scoot it off, then I had my work cut out for me. Sometimes water and soap couldn't do the job and I had to very carefully cut the fur it was stuck to with scissors, not something me and the dog liked very much. If I kept the dogs fur around the ass cut short they wouldn't have a dried poo problem.
I take it you've never watched the dog whisperer before. There are no dog problems he can't fix, and I've seen dogs much worse than yours get helped. But sense most dog problems are caused by humans that don't know what they are doing. He has to be able to re-train the humans or the dog hasn't got a chance.
RSPCA response to unscientific swedish study:
Even an unscientific Swedish study on German shorthaired pointers - widely referred to by proponents of tail docking - revealed that only seven amputations had to be carried out in 191 dogs, therefore 184 (97 per cent) of these dogs did not have to be docked.
There is a danish study mentioned in the above link also.
Yes, on occasion a dog (or cats) tail is injured. Usually slammed in a house door, sometimes stepped on, and once in a while its caught in something via wagging/playing. But not very common for any breed. And certainly not a justifiable reason to resort to tail amputation.
Look at all those tails:
As far as the excuse of feces in the fur, How do you explain all the long haired dogs who dont have docked tails normally and they survive just fine? I suppose its all in how you care for your animal.
:tempted: *Thinks longingly of garden shears*
You have to be joking. Have you ever owned an intact male dog? We breed Lhasa Apsos, a breed that doesn't get much over 20lb/9kg and is not noted for agility. One of our studs once jumped through a window that was 4ft/1.2m above the floor, in order to get to a bitch in heat. Another time we left him in the car with the window cracked for fresh air, and he managed to slither out and walk across three busy highways and through bear- and cougar-infested woods to get to a bitch in heat 5mi/8km away.
Even if you call in the CIA to make your house escape-proof, you will not be able to live with the behavior of a frustrated male dog. Marking territory, fighting with your other dogs, and howling whenever he smells the pheromones of a bitch in heat anywhere in the same town.
As breeders we've heard all the legends. But the one that seems most likely true about Rottweilers is that they were originally working dogs in the Roman Empire, pulling carts and doing hard farm work in the Alps, where a horse is too big to do it. This vicious temperament that they have become famous for was bred into them much later by the Germans. Their tails got caked with mud, which caused at least clumsiness and at worst infections.
Au contraire. Sometimes they get stuck and the very strong tail allows the owner to pull them out. This is still done today.
But most breed standards were developed in an earlier era when they were indeed working dogs. Ironically, the American Kennel Club, which is less than 150 years old, has some of the most antiquated standards. They still require tail docking on many breeds or they're ineligible for shows. In several other countries not only have the standards been modernized, but docking is even illegal.
One of the differences between Canis lupus familiaris and C. lupus lupus (the wolf) is that in dog packs a female is often the alpha. We've certainly observed that in our own packs.
We've spent twelve thousand years carefully culling from the gene pool any dog that doesn't yield to the authority of humans. Nonetheless, some herding dogs regard small children as members of the herd rather than of the family, because after all children do tend to behave like unsupervised livestock. There are many reports of herding dogs kept strictly as pets, never getting to exercise their herding instinct, and when the family has children they joyfully herd them into a corner of the yard.
Fortunately Lhasa Apsos were bred to be watchdogs around the Buddhist temples in the Himalayas. (In modern times anyway; in prehistoric times the Mongols kept them to clean up the garbage in their camps.) A friend once had a litter of "mis-mated" Lhasas that he could not show or sell. His gardener admired them so he gave him one. His wife didn't want a dog and was very angry over this. Then one day she looked out the window and saw their children playing in the unfenced front yard as usual, and the dog was walking back and forth along the sidewalk as a sentry, challenging anyone who came too close to the kids. From that day on, he was her dog.
Your Lhasa will guard your children with her life. Warn your friends and relatives not to play too rough with them or they might get nipped. Fortunately most Lhasas have an underbite so they can't do any real damage.
I was. Still, you can try to make a counter argument. And could you cut down on the words? Nobody reads all of your posts. Or at least include a TL;DR part.
You know what I did to my greyhound who liked to run around a lot?(well, it was in his nature, I guess) I cut off one of his legs, he is pretty docile now...
...and I won't even bring up the vocal cords removal of my loudly barking dog. (these are of course just analogies)
So if we can hurt the animal for health of behavior reasons, why not for beauty???
You are refuting a study that nobody brought up? Nice....
So I have the perfect dog:
Balls cut off (no humping)
Vocal cord removed (no barking)
One back leg removed (he was jumping on people too much).
But we left his tail alone.
He is the perfect dog, I am telling you...
Excuse me but dogs are like people in that they don't come in (Perfect). I just wish all people would put some time and research into buying a dog in the first place, and if they do get it, it should be compatible with the lifestyle and living conditions of the owner. The owner needs to get some professional training on how to be a good dog owner. How many people get a dog and know nothing about how to be the pack leader. When the dog has to assume the roll of pack leader in a family situation, the out come is rarely a good one for both the dog and the people.
You brought it up here:
Separate names with a comma.