Dog castration vs. tail docking

I am really unsure why you think this is a contrary statement. I said Long Tails are NOT a disadvantage. However, in keeping with the thread:

From the AKC breed standard on Scottish Terriers:

The tail should be about seven inches long and never cut.
http://www.akc.org/breeds/scottish_terrier/index.cfm

I believe the mandated docked tail or DQ was a rule in the past and if I remember right, it was changed in the late 70s. Again from the AKC standard:

http://www.akc.org/events/conformation/faqs.cfm

I have to read the above as No natural tail (barring deformations) will be disqualified being as several breeds do DQ for docked tails.

http://www.akc.org/sitesearch/index.cfm?q=docked and disqualification&submitsearch=

I found no dog breed that has a DQ for undocked tails (or ears). I may have missed some.

Some breeds are penalized for undocked tails (poodle/boxer/etc) in the ring but again, this is simply the archaic mentality of SOME dog breeders, who also via that same mentality bred the brains out of some of the working/hunting dogs for coats and head shapes, introduced health issues via breeding for color and other aethestics and are not truely working for a better breed of dog.

 

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thats why i like mutts, less genetic problems from inbreading

 

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My inlaws dog (the shepherd rotty x) is at least 10 ( they got him just before 09\01)

 

Bottom line is that people dock tails for human gratification. No matter what study[ies] you cite, the dog is not going to be "better off" with a docked tail.

This is done for personal gratification, not for the well-being of the dog. Anyone that says differently is going to have to overcome the very real issue of dogs using their tails to communicate. Cut half of your tongue off and see if that benefits you... :bugeye:

 

A short docked tail wagging speaks the same as a long tail does to me. I'm sure I couldn't do as well with half a tongue.

 

Wrong. Well, perhaps to you, but not to another dog...

 

Really, how would you know that? Dogs are very good at reading body language and they don't need to see a tail to do it.

 

And where are you getting this from?

 

But that is the reason why we keep dogs.

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So if the dog could choose between being kept with short tail or not having him around at all, guess what would he choose???

 

And you would know that how exactly??? On the other hand I do know, that you are wrong, because when my docked tail dog signals to the other dogs (pretty much everyday, if you ask) they do get the picture....

 

Well, that particular statement of mine seems to have generated a lot of naysayers to jump up and down...

My position not only rests on 50 years of personal experience plus numerous anecdotes, but I can back my suppositions. Can you? If you say dogs / wolves do not communicate using their tails, I would love to see how you arrived at that conclusion. However, I realize the burden is on me, so here we go for starters:

Emphasis mine.
Quote from: Mendocino Coast Humane Society, picked at random from any number of Google results on the first page of searching "dog tail communication".

You guys are really trying to say that dogs don't use their tails to communicate? For real? Challenge me. I'll provide you with a hundred links - evaluate for yourself...

(I apologize for my lack of presence here recently, by the way...)

(Disclaimer: Do you really need 100 links? Would 25 do?)

 

Please source this Fraggle. I provided citations with my quote, where are yours?

 

I never said dogs don't use the tail for communications. I said they don't really need it. Dogs actually read humans much better than humans do, and they don't have any problems reading another dog without a tail, so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

 

Right. And you don't really need your tongue for communication. Sign language will do just fine.

Perhaps. I guess that depends on the human in question. You were big on the "Dog Whisperer" earlier. Personally I speak "dog" pretty fluently. I'm very sorry if you haven't acquired this skill yet, keep at it...

Are you sure? Prove it...

I'm trying to make the point that you are wrong. Docking a tail diminishes a dog's ability to communicate with another canine. By your own admission, dogs use their tails to communicate. Logically, if you take that option away from them, their ability to communicate is diminished. Yes? No?

 

Nope. What I say is that a short tail communicates as much as a long tail. My dog's tail is only 2 inches long, but he signals with it just fine. So docking didn't destroy his ability to talk "dog".

It is actually more fun because of the shortness of it, he can wave it really fast. His frequency is easily 5 times faster than a ladrador's....

 

Agreed. Docking didn't destroy communication, merely diminished the capability. Similar to an uncorrected "hair-lip".

 

I'm sorry, Fraggle. I have never heard you assert this in the past. Do you claim to have raised / kept C. lupus lupus (to use the new taxonomy) in captivity? How did that work out for you?

 

That might be a good example if all humans could use sign language.

Let's see I've never had a problem knowing when a dog was happy to see me. Nor do I have a problem knowing when they want to eat, when they want to go out, whey want to play...etc. As a matter of fact there weren't many things my dogs couldn't communicate to me.

Maybe a little, but I'm sure the owner doesn't notice, because their dog is still able to communicate all their needs quite well, and if the docking happened when the dog was a few days old they just don't miss it.