# Doppler Effect Of Gravitational Field

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by TonyYuan, May 27, 2020.

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1. ### Neddy BateValued Senior Member

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Okay, but when there are parenthesis, they indicate that the operations inside of them have higher priority. So F = G*M*m/R^2/(1+v/R*T)) with the unmatched parenthesis could mean F = G*M*m/(R^2/(1+v/R*T)) or F = G*M*m/R^2/((1+v)/R*T) since I have to guess where the parenthesis might have been intended. And if you are prone to leaving the parentheses unmatched, then I might wonder if you mean something else. I did tell you that I was having trouble understanding your derivation.

Last edited: Jun 2, 2020

3. ### TonyYuanRegistered Senior Member

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Ok, I see, this is indeed an editorial error in my article. Thanks very much for helping me discover this error. Let's continue the discussion.

5. ### TonyYuanRegistered Senior Member

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Neddy,
It is very meaningful to discuss with you. The doubts you encounter are certainly also the doubts that other scholars will encounter. I hope to discuss with you to let everyone solve the doubts.

If you have understood my article, please let me know, thank you.

7. ### Neddy BateValued Senior Member

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2,115
Okay, so one more time, let me just try to test these two equations out. Let's say that R=10 length units and v=1 length unit per time unit. We will consider the following interval of time units:
[At time t=0 the distance between M and m] = (R + (v * t)) = 10 + (1 * 0) = 10
[At time t=1 the distance between M and m] = (R + (v * t)) = 10 + (1 * 1) = 11
[At time t=2 the distance between M and m] = (R + (v * t)) = 10 + (1 * 2) = 12
[At time t=3 the distance between M and m] = (R + (v * t)) = 10 + (1 * 3) = 13
So the average distance is (10+11+12+13)/4 = 11.5 which when squared is 132.25.
Or, if we square them first, and then average them, it is (100+121+144+169)/4 = 133.5.

And I think this is your other equation:
[For a total time T=3 the squared distance between M and m] = R^2 * (1 + ((v/R) * T))
[For a total time T=3 the squared distance between M and m] = 10^2 * (1 + ((1/10) * 3))
[For a total time T=3 the squared distance between M and m] = 10^2 * (1 + (0.1 * 3))
[For a total time T=3 the squared distance between M and m] = 100 * (1 + 0.3）= 130.

Okay, now I see. And for the case of only t=0 and T=0 we get:
[For a total time T=0 the squared distance between M and m] = R^2 * (1 + ((v/R) * 0))
[For a total time T=0 the squared distance between M and m] = 10^2 * (1 + ((1/10) * 0))
[For a total time T=0 the squared distance between M and m] = 10^2 * (1 + (0.1 * 0))
[For a total time T=0 the squared distance between M and m] = 100 * (1 + 0.0）= 100

Okay, it makes sense now, but I am still thinking about the meaning...

8. ### TonyYuanRegistered Senior Member

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440
Neddy, You only need to follow the steps below to understand:
1. Calculate the total impulse P generated by the gravity during time T.
2. P/T, calculate the average value of gravity F(v) in time T.
3. Analyze whether F(v1)-F(v2) and v1-v2 are linear or nonlinear at different speeds v1 and v2.
4. Use the boundary conditions v = 0 and v = c to derive the relationship between F(v) and R and v.

9. ### Neddy BateValued Senior Member

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2,115
For R=10 length units and v=1 length unit per time unit, I have included the square, and also increased the number of data points in my interval of time units:
[At time t=0.0 the squared distance between M and m] = (R + (v * t))^2 = (10 + (1 * 0.0))^2 = 10.0^2 = 100
[At time t=0.5 the squared distance between M and m] = (R + (v * t))^2 = (10 + (1 * 0.5))^2 = 10.5^2 = 110.25
[At time t=1.0 the squared distance between M and m] = (R + (v * t))^2 = (10 + (1 * 1.0))^2 = 11.0^2 = 121
[At time t=1.5 the squared distance between M and m] = (R + (v * t))^2 = (10 + (1 * 1.5))^2 = 11.5^2 = 132.25
[At time t=2.0 the squared distance between M and m] = (R + (v * t))^2 = (10 + (1 * 2.0))^2 = 12.0^2 = 144
[At time t=2.5 the squared distance between M and m] = (R + (v * t))^2 = (10 + (1 * 2.5))^2 = 12.5^2 = 156.25
[At time t=3.0 the squared distance between M and m] = (R + (v * t))^2 = (10 + (1 * 3.0))^2 = 13.0^2 = 169
So the average is (100+110.25+121+132.25+144+156.25+169)/7 = 133.25.
Before, with only 4 data points, the average was (100+121+144+169)/4 = 133.5.

So I made a spreadsheet to see where the average converges with more and more data points:
Average for 4 data points = 133.5
Average for 7 data points = 133.25
Average for 13 data points = 133.125
Average for 25 data points = 133.0625
Average for 49 data points = 133.03125
.
.
.
So the average is obviously converging on 133.000000000000

[For a total time T=3 the squared distance between M and m] = R^2 * (1 + ((v/R) * T))
[For a total time T=3 the squared distance between M and m] = 10^2 * (1 + ((1/10) * 3))
[For a total time T=3 the squared distance between M and m] = 10^2 * (1 + (0.1 * 3))
[For a total time T=3 the squared distance between M and m] = 100 * (1 + 0.3）= 130.

Why the discrepancy?

10. ### TonyYuanRegistered Senior Member

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440
F = G*M*m/(R^2/(1+v/R*T)), you should calculate 1/[R^2*(1+v/R*T)].

(1/100 + 1/121 + 1/144+ 1/169)/4 = 0.00778151675441885232095022304813

(1/100 + 1/110.25 + 1/121 + 1/132.25 + 1/144 + 1/156.25 + 1/169 ) = 0.00773682835360339600630770438548

1/130 = 0.00769230769230769230769230769231

When more samples, the closer to 1/130.

11. ### Neddy BateValued Senior Member

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2,115
Interesting, thank you.

Okay, so now I am at step 3.

12. ### TonyYuanRegistered Senior Member

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440
Neddy, I randomly calculated some data.
samples num=193----------0.00769369--------1/130=0.00769231
samples num=3073--------0.00769239-------- 1/130=0.00769231
samples num=3145729----0.00769231---------1/130=0.00769231

13. ### TonyYuanRegistered Senior Member

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440
OK. Let's go.

14. ### TonyYuanRegistered Senior Member

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440
Neddy, do you have some new progress?

15. ### Neddy BateValued Senior Member

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2,115
Thanks. Yes I understood after your post #47 that I should have been looking at the inverses instead.

I have confirmed to my satisfaction that F(v1) / F(v2) = (R + v2*T) / (R + v1*T) as your paper says. However, I am not sure what that means. Does that let me answer the question in your step 3? I am not sure whether I even understand the question in step 3.

16. ### TonyYuanRegistered Senior Member

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440
This is just a mathematical proof that they ( F(v) and v ) are a linear relationship. Then use the step4 to draw the final conclusion.
Have you started the verification of step 4 now?

Neddy,

Last edited: Jun 3, 2020
17. ### TonyYuanRegistered Senior Member

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440
Some people I know, they told me, don’t waste time on the forum, there will be no professional physicists, no professional astronomers here, just a bunch of people who don’t know anything. Only if you publish this article in a journal can you prove that it is correct, otherwise no one will recognize your theory.

I have tried some journals, but this theory challenges general relativity and is a gravitational revision of Newton. Its influence is so great that no journal dares to publish it.

I went back to this forum and back to where I started. Here I feel the academic atmosphere, where I can freely discuss and freely refute. I hope that I believe that our efforts here can give the final answer. Is this theory right or wrong? If we finally confirm that it is correct, I hope that we can work together to get it recognized by professional journals and the physics community.

Let's work hard together, come on.

If you think something is wrong, please boldly point out.
If you agree with my theory, please bravely support me.

Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
18. ### Neddy BateValued Senior Member

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2,115
Please correct me if I am wrong:
F(v) is the average gravitational force over the time interval T.
R is the initial distance between M and m.
R + v*T is the final distance between M and m.

So...
F(v1) / F(v2) = (R + v2*T) / (R + v1*T)
...means that for two different velocities v1 and v2 with everything else held constant...
... the ratio of the two different average gravitational forces...
...is equal to the inverse of the ratio of the two different final distances between M and m.

Correct?

I am not on to step 4 yet, but getting closer, I think.

19. ### TonyYuanRegistered Senior Member

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440
Yes.
Good, come on.

20. ### Neddy BateValued Senior Member

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2,115
F(v1) / F(v2) = (R + v2*T) / (R + v1*T)

For the boundary conditions of v1=0 and v2=c, we have:

F(0) / F(c) = (R + c*T) / (R + 0*T)
F(0) / F(c) = (R + c*T) / (R)

Correct?

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440
Yes.

22. ### Neddy BateValued Senior Member

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2,115
so
F(0) / F(c) = (R + c*T) / R
now what?

23. ### TonyYuanRegistered Senior Member

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440
I don’t know what you want to do next? I have a detailed process for the step3 and the step4 in the article.

F(v1) - F(v2) = K*(v2-v1)*T

F(0) = GMm/R^2,
F(v) - F(0) = F(v) - GMm/R^2 = - K*(v)*T.
F(v) = GMm/R^2 - K*(v)*T

F(c) = 0,
F(v) - F(c) = K*(c-v)*T
F(v) = K*(c-v)*T

F(v) = GMm/R^2 - K*(v)*T = K*(c-v)*T
K*c*T = GMm/R^2
K = [GMm/R^2]/(c*T)

F(v) = K*(c-v)*T = [GMm/R^2]/(c*T) * (c-v)*T = (GMm/R^2) * [(c-v)/c]

The final equation：
F(v) = (GMm/R^2) * [(c-v)/c]

Last edited: Jun 4, 2020