Dreams and Visions

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Tony H2o, Jan 19, 2000.

  1. Tony H2o Registered Senior Member

    Dreams and Visions,

    Throughout the Bible there are hundreds of accounts of people who experienced divine dreams and visions and how these experiences effected great outcomes.

    If studied in detail one will find that most cultures and indigenous groups build into their belief system these experiences, North and South American Indians, Australian Aborigines, New Zealand Maori, Pacific Islanders, African tribal groups, Eastern religions, Middle East beliefs, Western Culture (is that a religion?) and the list goes on.

    But what I want to know is what is your personal experience? What dreams, visions and experiences that defy common explanation have affected you personally? No I'm not talking about drug induced hallucinations or your standard everynight dreams, I want to dig deeper than that and look at the ones that have stuck with you as strongly as a memory of an actual event.

    In my original post Overview I gave an account of an experience that has shaped my beliefs, since that time I have had many dreams and some visions that relate to my beliefs, I also have had many dreams that don't.

    So feel free to share.............

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  3. Tony H2o Registered Senior Member

    Here I go talkingto myself again.

    Just thought of something I forgot to include.

    With these dreams and visions where do they come from? Our subconcious? Everyday events that are distorted and presented in a crazy way by a brain thats half asleep? Anyone got any info on research into this area?

    Take care....H2o
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  5. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

    Okay, here's how I see it working. Joe the Nobody has a dream where he leads people out into the desert and founds a great nation. He tells his dream to his buddies. Most liekly, they laugh it off or tell him to knock it off and we never hear any more from it. But if Joe the Nobody has a decent amount of charisma, he can probably get his friends to check it out with him. If he has a great deal of charisma (or else a money-making scheme in the works and his buddies are part of it), his buddies go out and spread the word and everybody follows them. If they fail and starve to death, we never hear of it. If they succeed, we hear of it. It's all a matter of if you can convince people to go along with you.

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    I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight, kill, and die for your right to say it.
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  7. Tony H2o Registered Senior Member


    Joe the nobody dreams, buddies laugh it off. If Joe has charisma, buddies join in the scheem. If it fails no one know, if it works everyone knows.

    It's all a matter of if you can convince people to go along with you.

    Oh now I see where your coming from, you've obviously read overview and could it be that I'm the charismatic Joe (my wife would debate that) trying to convince everyone of my plan or experience in an effort to get them to believe what I do, to get them to follow me?

    Wow 10/10 for conspiracy, but wrong.

    Seriously though you have raised a very valid point. We cannot rely on other peoples experiences to build our own beliefs or relationship with God. We can however be inspired by them if we know the person and their character and trust that what they say is truth. No we each need to develope an individual relationship and experrience Him personaly.

    I couldn't agree with you more Oxy, there are a lot of snake oil salesmen out there that will feed your ego to bleed you dry. They will appeal to your beliefs if they think they can achieve some sort of gain, either finanical, social recognition, status etc. And the sad sad thing is that we fall for it, tell people what they want to hear and they will believe you. You know that's why I like it here, God using people like you to challenge what I believe and why I believe. No room for whimppy spoon fed faith around these parts, gotta dig deep or cave in. So thanks.

    Anyway getting back to the main topic what Oxygen is getting at is not much different than a couple of dreams I had recently. Yes they are all based around my faith but the theam is truth. So to get the ball rolling read on:

    MANTLE OF HOLINESS - A dream of the power of Gods Word.

    I was in a building with long halls and many rooms with many other people, the building was sealed off and there were no exits. Somehow I knew that I should leave the building, it was not because there was any apparent or obvious danger, it was actually quite cosy but I just knew I could not stay there. Another person and I found a way out and as we left we were pursued by an extremely menacing creature that was built like a cross between Robo-Cop the Terminator (without skin) and a Transformer. His name was Destruction and his job was to destroy anyone who attempted to leave the building. This guy was big and dangerous, he was amour plated with an array of rotary guns, canons, swords, knives etc, and as I said he was hell bent on destroying anyone who left the cosy building. We tried to outrun him but he was fast and strong, we could see him gaining on us and as he got closer terror gripped my heart followed by panic, he was upon us and there was nowhere to hide. At this point I looked over at my companion who was as white as a sheet and looked like he had seen a ghost, in his hand was a short sword or long knife and instead of defending himself he stabbed himself through the heart. He could not face the enemy, fear took his life.

    I was then running again trying to find a hiding place but it was futile. Destruction was behind me and shooting green jelly like blobs at me, a few blobs struck me but I felt nothing all they seemed to do was to slow me down and allow him to catch up quicker as he got closer more blobs caught me but now they hurt. I stopped not because I had to but because the fear and terror that I felt had disappeared and was replaced with anger, I was angry that this creature had caused my companion to die because of fear, I was angry because I was running from him. Then a sudden realisation came over me, that which was in me as a child of God was greater than that which pursued me. I turned and faced Destruction head on. This seemed to throw him for as I did the green blobs froze in space as though there was a force field in front of me, they then turned and shot back at destruction hitting him in the eyes. This in turn caused his head to swell up and out from his eyes flowed a stream of maggots, for all his shining armour and weaponry this creature was nothing more than a sack of festering squirming maggots. He was was defeated in my life but still held power over others.

    I then headed back to the building however it now had a compound area around it also. I managed to get back in through the way I exited without being noticed and once inside I realised that Destruction was not the only creature that came from the building, another monster looking robot type creature stood there. This one was even more menacing looking than Destruction he was larger with greater armour and better weapons. His name was Deception and his job was to deceive those who stayed in the building / compound area, he did not use his weapons in the same way as destruction he was sly and cunning and knew that head on confrontation would cause his demise. He ignored me or should I say that he just didn't seem to notice me. I can remember trying to get others to leave and showing them the exit, but they were comfortable and wanted to stay because the food was good. Food?? What food?? The food we get from over there. I turned and saw Deception standing over a large pot or cauldron of bubbling stew, under the pot was a fire and surrounding the fire was charcoal. There seemed to be a line of people or people lining up to have the bowls they had filled with stew by Deception. I asked many if they could see deception serving them but they did not want to see, besides the food was good. I looked at the stew in their bowls and to my surprise it looked very nourishing, I even tasted some and it tasted nice but then my attention was diverted to a group of people who were laughing and pointing.

    Across from the compound sat a lone figure, it was an old aboriginal man sitting beside a fire and wailing. He was in traditional dress with his legs crossed and his fire consisted of coals burning brightly with a thin column of smoke trailing off into the heavens. I could not understand what he was wailing about, or why the compound dwellers were laughing at him and mocking him, I look around and Deception was happily dishing out stew and the compound dwellers were happily lining up for more, "because the food was good". It was then that I realised that the old aboriginal man was interceding for the compound dwellers and that the thin column of smoke rising towards the heavens were his prayers, I could not understand his words but his prayers were clear to me.


    Destruction had tried to kill from the outside but Deception was cleaver and sly, he knew to attack from the inside. The prayer went on.


    I immediately went to the base of the fire and took hold of the charcoal and began to eat, the prayer was right it was hard to chew and difficult to swallow but it was a cure against the poison. I can remember having black smeared all around my mouth and trying to get others to eat the charcoal, some tried but gave up because it tasted foul and was to hard they went back to the stew. Others persisted and joined me in trying to convince more compound dwellers that the charcoal was the source of life and what they thought was good was killing them.

    Throughout the dream the phrase "Mantle of Holiness" came to me three times, it came so strongly that it woke me up twice.

    When I consider the dream there are many things that come to me:

    The Charcoal - The Living Word of God.
    The Stew - The Word of God which has been distorted and is presented as a mish-mash of ideas by the deceiver. A strong delusion used to trap even the elect of God (ref 2Tim 3 & 4 ear tickle).
    The Old Aboriginal Man - Interceding on behalf of the blinded compound dwellers.
    The Compound - The "Church" today?
    The Compound Dwellers - Those within the church - Two categories, seeing and blinded.
    Destruction and Deception - The evil ones agents. I say agents because they act in secrecy until eyes have been opened to see them for what they are.
    Destruction - In #Job 26:6 28:22 (Heb. abaddon) is sheol, the realm of the dead. (death has been overcome by the Lord Jesus).
    Deception - AV-deceive, err, go astray, seduce, wander, be out of the way.
    1) to cause to stray, to lead astray, lead aside from the right way
    1a) to go astray, wander, roam about
    2) metaph.
    2a) to lead away from the truth, to lead into error, to deceive
    2b) to be led into error
    2c) to be led aside from the path of virtue, to go astray, sin
    2d) to sever or fall away from the truth.
    2d1) of heretics.
    2e) to be led away into error and sin.
    (deception is an ongoing enemy of the saints and the truth of the Word of God)
    Mantle of Holiness - Mantle means a loose outer garment, to cover, to hide, to form a covering of Holiness. Hebrew = hkyms s@miykah sem-ee-kaw', mantle
    1) rug, coverlet, thick coverlet (Perhaps this is why deception could not see me).
    Mantle - An upper garment, "an exterior tunic, wide and long, reaching to the ankles, but without sleeves" #Isa 59:17 The word so rendered is elsewhere rendered "robe" or "mantle." It was worn by the high priest under the ephod #Ex 28:31 by kings and others of rank #1Sa 15:27 #Job 1:20 2:12 and by women #2Sa 13:18 The word translated "cloak", i.e., outer garment, in #Mt 5:40 is in its plural form used of garments in general #Mt 17:2 26:65 The cloak mentioned here and in #Lu 6:29 was the Greek himation, Latin pallium, and consisted of a large square piece of woollen cloth fastened round the shoulders, like the abba of the Arabs. This could be taken by a creditor #Ex 22:26,27 but the coat or tunic (Gr. chiton) mentioned in #Mt 5:40 could not. The cloak which Paul "left at Troas" #2Ti 4:13 was the Roman paenula, a thick upper garment used chiefly in travelling as a protection from the weather. Some, however, have supposed that what Paul meant was a travelling-bag. In the Syriac version the word used means a bookcase.

    The meaning of the dream.

    Every time I read and think through the dream the Lord reveals something new to me. However the main theme that comes through is that if we wish to truly experience the power and grace of God, to walk closely to him and see things through his eyes our lives need to be 100% based on the WORD OF GOD and strengthened through prayer, (spending time with the one you love). Our lives need to revolve around JESUS who is the LIVING WORD OF GOD, around his teachings, instructions and commands. We need to hear His Words and OBEY!!! JESUS is the fulfilment of the law, the words of the prophets and the promises of God the Father.

    We need to rid our lives of sins that would hold us back by openly confessing them to CHRIST. By asking him to show us the log in our own eye, our hidden sins and putting aside our own agendas covering ourselves in His "MANTLE OF HOLINESS". Doing what he has commanded us to do in the gospels. Then and only then will we see the full power of God work in our lives to completely overcome destruction and deception along with all the other hoards of the evil one. Again it is a victory that will be seen only through prayer, the Word of God and obedience. Only then will we understand who we are in Christ and the authority that has been given to us.

    We need to test all things, all spirits, all prophecy, all the words we read, all the words we speak, every thought, every imagining (note: prophets be warned, pride and vain imaginings can be your ruin) ALL THINGS ARE TO BE TESTED AGAINST THE WORD OF THE LORD AND BY THE HOLY SPIRIT OF THE LIVING AND ALMIGHTY GOD. AMEN!!

    A sister in the Lord gave me the following Scripture. Isaiah 6:1-9,

    In the year that King Urzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. 2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he did fly. 3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. 4) And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house with filled with smoke. 5) Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts. 6) Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: 7) And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged. 8) Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. 9) And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.

    Tony H2o
    24 MAY 99
  8. Oxygen One Hissy Kitty Registered Senior Member

    Oh! Oh! I wasn't calling you Joe the Nobody! I thought it was purely academic! OOOOOOOPS! Mea culpa! Lo siento mucho! So sorry!

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    That was a pretty awesome dream you had! It was a treat just reading it! Now that I know where you're coming from, let me try again.

    Dreams are hailed in the world of psychology as the language of the subconscious. I have solved many problems by "sleeping on them". Sometimes, though, even I get warnings, or predictions. I don't try very hard to analyze them anymore. I just take them at face value and keep my eyes and ears open.

    Dreams are very useful things. They are a good stress relief, especially when you have a dream so funny that you wake up laughing and can't remember what you were laughing at. Then you realize that your subconscious just made a monkey out of you and you laugh even more.

    Are you a lucid dreamer? If not, count your blessings. People try to become lucid dreamers because they want to control their dreams. My advice is not to. Dreams are better when they're unpredictable, and you may find yourself shutting out something that your subconscious is trying to tell you.

    As far as your dream goes, man! I wish I had dreams like that! The symbolism in it was very clear. If you want my input on it, I believe that the building represented the systems of the modern church. Of course, if you try to leave, the faithful (the people inside) will think you're off your rocker and you will find yourself socially ostracized compliments of Destruction, which I believe represents the destruction of your identity with the modern system. Without recapping your entire post, I believe that you are right on with your interpretation of your dream, but if I had to call it, I'd say the weeping aboriginal man represented the original path, uncontaminated by all the crap that has built up around conventional religion over the generations. It was your dream, so you know best what it meant to you, but I believe that it refers to a breaking away from the accepted norms of religion to find your own truth.

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    I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will fight, kill, and die for your right to say it.

    [This message has been edited by Oxygen (edited January 19, 2000).]
  9. Bowser Namaste Valued Senior Member

    <img src = "http://users.esc.net.au/~nitro/BBoard_member_gifs/bowser_anim.gif">I wish I could remember my dreams in that much detail.

    I remember my father telling me that he always dreamed in black and white. He did have one dream which showed color. That dream was of a locomotive which was slowly moving up a steep incline. As it progressed up the hill, it began to glow red.

    Shortly after this dream, he suffered his first hart attack. He felt that the dream was a signal that he was pushing himself to hard.

    Concerning the religious leader thing that Qxygen brought up: I believe that mental illness played a larger role in the histories of the various world religions. Although, I'm sure some were contrived for personal gain.

    It's all very large.

    [This message has been edited by Bowser (edited January 20, 2000).]
  10. MoonCat Registered Senior Member

    I pay careful attention to my dreams. I think they're my subconscious mind trying to communicate with my conscious mind.

    I seem to have 3 types of dreams:
    1. dreams stemming directly from days events
    2. abstract dreams that don't seem to make sense - heavily symbolic, these are straight from my subconscious and usually contain a message or two about something I need to deal with
    3. prophetic dreams. These are hard to distinguish from my abstract dreams, the main difference is that the deal with the future instead of the past.

    I had a dream as a teenager that I was on a cruise ship. It was a James Bond-type dream, with secret weapons, hiding places, hidden microfilm and bad guys. (And I'm not a Bond fan!) I was being chased all over by these bad guys, as I was trying to hang onto the microfilm. Eventually (it was a looong dream), I got shot in my left shoulder. I was hit specifically by a .357 Magnum, and I went down in a pool of blood. Upon waking up, my shoulder ached and throbbed right where I had been hit. I went into the kitchen to get some water, and sitting smack in the middle of the dining room table was a spent shell from a .357. Nobody in my house could tell me where it came from, they all said they hadn't seen it before. I shrugged it off, not taking it as a danger warning or anything else, just some weird occurance.

    2 weeks later I found myself fighting for my life. There was no gun in my real life fight, but there were other similarities that I will spare you all from.

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    If I had been paying attention to my dreams, I might have been on guard and avoided a pretty deadly situation. I still have that spent shell, I keep it as a reminder that sometimes it's best to listen to those inner voices.

    Needless to say, I am very careful to listen to my dreams nowadays. I firmly believe that my subconscious mind is much more attentive than my conscious mind is. And when I get a warning from that part of myself, I pay attention!!

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  11. Lori Registered Senior Member


    When I read your dream, I saw it's truth in the alien abduction phenomenon, and resulting new age beliefs. To a tee. Right across home plate.


    The stew does taste good right? Mmmmm....tasty. Exactly. It's laced with poison. Exactly. Right on the money. Wow, that's trippy.

    "Go Jesus, go! Go Jesus, go!"

    I finally get to be the cheerleader that I always wanted to be but could not, as I was not a fluff chick.
  12. Tony H2o Registered Senior Member

    Thanks all for the comments and feed back.

    Just a few of things:

    Bowser mentioned that he wished he could remember his dreams that clearly, hey count me in. I don't normally remember them like that, which is why when we do we need to take notice.

    Subconscious this, subconscious that, yes I agree the subconscious is a powerful area and can react is strange ways to varying circumstances. These reactions are often vividly displayed in dreams, and may be as a result of being involved in certain things. As an example the job I do involves me climbing into large mining machinery on occasion to inspect wear and condition. Yesterday I had to climb into one and man it scares the crackers out of me, you go through all the safety precautions of locking and tagging out but still in the back of your mind is the thought that some idiot may just hit the start button, result = mashed Tony. So after surviving the claustrophobia and the thoughts of being squished to a pulp I went home. And had a lousy nights sleep, dream after dream of danger and injury. In the dreams however the fears became manifest in the form of people, my subconscious had personified the fears. Now even though I had these dreams I cannot remember the intricate details like in the dream I posted,
    the dreams I had last night were extremely fragmented however I know the general them was danger and injury.

    So when a dream that comes along in which you remember things as vividly as a normal memory you sit up and take notice. Its the type of dream which is more than B&W or colour. Its a dream where you feel each and every emotion magnified, its a dream where your senses are super sensitive, your hearing, your vision, your touch, taste, smell. Its a difficult thing to try to recap or record such things because its almost impossible to capture the emotion, the enormous sense of being there. It like the difference between seeing the Grand Canyon, of Niagra Falls and trying to explain it to someone who is blind. You do your best but ultimately fail because of our limits to communicate. When you have a dream or dreams like these you know that you know that they are not from the subconcious. They are from a higher authority. In my case God.

    Does anyone out there understand what I'm getting at here or am I out on a limb?

    You know we have a lot of discussion here about the authenticity of the Bible that us Christians believe in, we question this and we question that and believe me its good to seek out the truth. However what I'm getting at above is an example of the frustration that some of the writers must have felt when trying to put into words and into phrases what it was that they believed and what God was showing them. After all is said and done they were human just like you and I with the same and if not greater limitations of writing and language that we have today. They had the same passions, the same likes and dislikes and yet even through all of this they busted their behinds trying to get it down in writing. Do you think that they would have thought that 2, 3, 4 or 5 thousand years latter that men would be scrutinising their words? I don't expect that anything I write will be placed under such a spotlight in years to come, do you? Have you ever wondered how a future civilisation might view the words we record today? A classical example of a man who must have felt completely underqualified for the job would be John the recorder of the book of Revelation in the Bible. Has anyone ever stopped and tried to consider the absolute enormity or the vision that was given to him? Has anyone stopped and considered that this man lived and died almost 2000 years ago and that the things that were shown to him may be from our time frame? How would you have done it? how would I have done it? If we were suddenly plucked out of this realm by the hand of God and shown events and technologies that may not exist for thousands of years how would we cope with our limited understandings? How would we record these things?

    Am I opening up a Pandora's box with greater questions than we will ever be able to answer? I trust not, I'm not trying to raise more question marks but rather to point out again that we as man regardless of our great and marvellous technologies, reasoning, lateral thinking and intellect fall short. We are fearfully and wonderfully made by an awesome and great God who's utmost desire is that we receive and give direct communication to Him in a living and almost indescribable relationship.

    We need to realise that all we hold close and sacred is the works of men with like desires and limitations to us. God does want to talk to us direct and the evil one knows this, so he imitates God and tries to deceive us. Why did I say test everything? Because evil will appear as an angle of light if necessary to lead us astray.

    2 Corinthians 11:14 And it is no wonder; for even Satan himself is able to take the form of an angel of light.

    How do I test? Through the name of Jesus.

    Heres some more to get your teeth into:

    The Breath of Life - As revealed in a dream/vision.

    This started with a fragmented dream, when I woke up parts of the dream became clearer to me and over a period of a few weeks the Lord has pieced it together.

    My father and I walked through the refinery which was covered with a haze or mist, on the ground were large and deep puddles of what appeared to be acid or caustic. My father walked carelessly through the puddles with acid splashing up every where. I on the other hand was avoiding stepping into the acid and was being careful not to let the splashing acid from my Dad land on me.

    From here the dream became somewhat fragmented with us talking to various people, out of these people there was a group of three who I was looking at from a distance. Two women and a man, the women were off to one side of the man and deep in discussion then one of the women went over to the man and passed him something.

    The dream then moved to an area like a room but it was not a room, this area was full of seeds like wheat. I found myself moving through this room with others who I did not recognise apart from the fact that we all had the same purpose. We were walking through the seeds and as we moved we breathed out over the seeds, in our hands we held pipes that went up into the air and seemed to go up through the atmosphere and into space. The air we breathed over the seeds was drawn from these pipes like using a snorkel.

    Off to the side of this area was a separate area, it was like another room but again it was not a room. This area also had seed in it but the seed in this area had life within it. The others and I were moving in and out of both areas that contained seed breathing deeply from the pipe and then exhaling every last ounce of air we could. Amongst the seed that was set off to the side walked a woman without a pipe, she was one of the women that I had seen earlier who was off to the side of the man and in deep discussion. She stayed in the area that was off to the side. Externally she was an extremely beautiful woman but when you looked deeply at her you could see that her beauty was only superficial and within her she was full of vile intentions. The woman was speaking over the seeds, her words were words that stopped the life from within the seed coming forth. However in some strange way I could sense that her words were appealing to the nature of the seeds, they were intoxicated by her and congregated towards her.

    As we moved in and out of this area the beautiful woman became agitated, as more of us entered the area she became angry and finally enraged. We continued to breath deeply from the pipes and exhale over this area. Her rage became insults and tantrums with her screaming that she had a right to be there, she was given the right by the man, woman and their seed. As we continued to breath over the seed a male figure appeared over us where our pipes were drawing breath from, in his hand he held a pipe and he placed one end of it into the area. He then placed his mouth at the other and breathed out over the seeds, as he did so the words came to me “SHE IS MINE AND I LOVE HER DEARLY”. These words were spoken over the seeds with such love and tenderness yet such authority and holiness, a holy, protective, nurturing, statement that “she is mine”. Words alone can not put across the essence of the act. With this the beautiful woman became confused and dumbstruck, she stumbled about as though she was drunk or in a state of shock with the most blank look on her face that I have ever seen.

    I then woke up, as mentioned earlier this dream seemed fragmented and disjointed but as the Lord brought it together it has become clear.

    My interpretation of the dream.

    1. The Acid - At the start I walked in the way of my (natural) father, however the thing that has contaminated his life has been broken in my life by my choice to avoid the acid or contamination from the acid.

    2. The two women and the man in the distance – I believe the man stood for Adam and one woman for Eve, the other beautiful woman was the spirit of MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. She was present at the fall and made Adam and Eve aware that they were naked, not just physically but spiritually also. This spirit is still at work today through the old nature that is within us the carnal man, the soul and wars against the Holy Spirit of God. This is why Jesus exhorted us to take up our cross daily and walk with him. It is also why Paul wrote about being filled continuously and crucifying himself with Christ daily, it’s why he wrote in Romans about being a wretched man, doing the things I don’t want to do and not doing the things I should do. The spirit of Babylon will appeal to our fallen nature through vanity, pride, lust, false humility etc and if we give ground to her she has the right to say but I was invited. She is an on going tormentor who works in stealth to intoxicate the saints and lead them to destruction. She stands in mystery opposition to all that is of Christ and the only way to deal with her is through falling on the Rock of our Salvation daily at the foot of the Cross of Christ, and through the power of the Holy Spirit. Then and only then will we find complete deliverance, then and only then can the Kingdom of God reign as it should in the hearts of men.

    3. The seeds and the two areas - The seeds represent the spirits of men and women, the two areas represent the world and the church. Interestingly the Babylon/Jezebel spirit moved mainly in the “church” area, she did not need to worry greatly about the seed of the world as they by way of the fallen nature and without the cross of deliverance are subject to her, they are in a perpetual state of confusion. Her focus is on the “Body and Bride of Christ” if she can work with destruction and deception to get the church to follow in the ways of the world then she can lead many into death.

    4. Breathing through the pipe – The Breath of Life. The air we breathed deeply of was the Holy Spirit of God, the pipes were our life line to the Father and the Lord Jesus. As we received we gave by blowing or exhaling all of what we had taken in and by doing so the Spirit of the Living God was released and the heart of the Father and our Lord Jesus was moved for his beloved body.
    Holy Ghost - The third Person of the adorable Trinity.
    1. His personality is proved
    a. from the fact that the attributes of personality, as intelligence and volition, are ascribed to him #Joh 14:17,26 #Joh 15:26 1Co 2:10,11 12:11 He reproves, helps, glorifies, intercedes #Joh 16:7-13 Ro 8:26
    b. He executes the offices peculiar only to a person. The very nature of these offices involves personal distinction #Lu 12:12 Ac 5:32 15:28 16:6 28:25 1Co 2:13 Heb 2:4 3:7 #2Pe 1:21
    2. His divinity is established
    a. From the fact that the names of God are ascribed to him #Ex 17:7 Ps 95:7 comp. #Heb 3:7-11
    b. Divine attributes are also ascribed to him
    1. omnipresence #Ps 139:7 Eph 2:17,18 1Co 12:13
    2. omniscience #1Co 2:10,11
    3. omnipotence #Lu 1:35 Ro 8:11
    4. eternity #Heb 9:14
    c. Creation is ascribed to him #Ge 1:2 Job 26:13 Ps 104:30 and the working of miracles #Mt 12:28 1Co 12:9-11
    d. Worship is required and ascribed to him #Isa 6:3 Ac 28:25 #Ro 9:1 Re 1:4 Mt 28:19

    5. Those moving amongst the seed - I was at first unsure of what to make of these people but the words that come to me are Gods true Prophets and Apostles upon which the church ‘HIS BRIDE’ is built. I find this difficult to understand as I was one of those walking amongst the seeds with a pipe.

    6. The male figure - Our Father God. The statement “SHE IS MINE AND I LOVER HER DEARLY” was spoken with a Fathers love. Moved by his love for his Son the Apostles and Prophets he acts on their behalf and breathes life into the Bride of Christ. His words ‘She is mine, and I love her dearly’ spoken in a way that I can not fully describe with words breaks the yoke of Babylon/Jezebel.

    7. The dumb Jezebel – Babylon the great mystery. Because of the Lords act of love her power will be stripped from her, she will stumble in the drunken stupor of her own iniquity, she will drink from her own cup of torment. Her mystery will be revealed.
    Babulwn Babulon bab-oo-lone' of Hebrew origin, Babylon = "confusion"
    Jezebel - Chaste, the daughter of Ethbaal, the king of the Zidonians, and the wife of Ahab, the king of Israel #1Ki 16:31 This was the "first time that a king of Israel had allied himself by marriage with a heathen princess; and the alliance was in this case of a peculiarly disastrous kind. Jezebel has stamped her name on history as the representative of all that is designing, crafty, malicious, revengeful, and cruel. She is the first great instigator of persecution against the saints of God. Guided by no principle, restrained by no fear of either God or man, passionate in her attachment to her heathen worship, she spared no pains to maintain idolatry around her in all its splendour. Four hundred and fifty prophets ministered under her care to Baal, besides four hundred prophets of the groves [R.V., 'prophets of the Asherah'], which ate at her table #1Ki 18:19 The idolatry, too, was of the most debased and sensual kind." Her conduct was in many respects very disastrous to the kingdom both of Israel and Judah #1Ki 21:1-29. (Even today her actions are widespread throughout spiritual Israel). At length she came to an untimely end. As Jehu rode into the gates of Jezreel, she looked out at the window of the palace, and said, "Had Zimri peace, who slew his master?" He looked up and called to her chamberlains, who instantly threw her from the window, so that she was dashed in pieces on the street, and his horses trod her under their feet. She was immediately consumed by the dogs of the street #2Ki 9:7-37 according to the word of Elijah the Tishbite #1Ki 21:19 Her name afterwards came to be used as the synonym for a wicked woman #Re 2:20 It may be noted that she is said to have been the grand-aunt of Dido, the founder of Carthage.
    Ahab - Father's brother. The son of Omri, whom he succeeded as the seventh king of Israel. His history is recorded in #1Ki 16:1-22:53 His wife was Jezebel, who exercised a very evil influence over him. To the calf-worship introduced by Jeroboam he added the worship of Baal. He was severely admonished by Elijah for his wickedness. His anger was on this account kindled against the prophet, and he sought to kill him. He undertook three campaigns against Ben-hadad II., king of Damascus. In the first two, which were defensive, he gained a complete victory over Ben-hadad, who fell into his hands, and was afterwards released on the condition of his restoring all the cities of Israel he then held, and granting certain other concessions to Ahab. After three years of peace, for some cause Ahab renewed war #1Ki 22:3 with Ben-hadad by assaulting the city of Ramoth-gilead, although the prophet Micaiah warned him that he would not succeed, and that the 400 false prophets who encouraged him were only leading him to his ruin. Micaiah was imprisoned for thus venturing to dissuade Ahab from his purpose. Ahab went into the battle disguised, that he might if possible escape the notice of his enemies; but an arrow from a bow "drawn at a venture" pierced him, and though stayed up in his chariot for a time he died towards evening, and Elijah's prophecy #1Ki 21:19 was fulfilled. He reigned twenty-three years. Because of his idolatry, lust, and covetousness, Ahab is referred to as pre-eminently the type of a wicked king #2Ki 8:18 2Ch 22:3 Mic 6:16

    Tony H2o
    29 June 99

    The Breath of Life and Mantle of Holiness dreams whilst highlighting a number of individual things also highlight two major themes:

    1. In the first dream it is by consumption of the charcoal that has been refined and lies at the base of the fire that the great deception and stew of delusion is exposed. The charcoal is the WORD OF GOD.

    2. In the second dream it is by drawing deeply from the pipes that fill us with the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD and then exhaling that the spell and the domination of Babylon and Jezebel is broken.

    In other words it is only by the WORD OF GOD and THE HOLY SPIRIT that destruction, deception and Babylon / Jezebel will be overcome.

    RESCUED - A dream of salvation.

    Not long after I became a Christian I lived in a flat with some mates near Merewether beach in Newcastle NSW. I was still coming to grips with the way the God was working with me and carrying some old baggage around with me.

    One morning as the sun rose I had a dream I will never forget.

    The dream started with me being in the middle of a jungle wearing army camouflage. Around about me was a war, the enemy was unseen but many. The fear I felt was so real that I could not move, my weapons were useless and the enemy had me surrounded. They were firing at me, shooting me and winging me, I ran and took cover beside a fallen tree but it would only be a matter of time before capture and death. The fear and intensity grew it would only be moments and they would be upon me.

    Then an amazing white stallion appeared in a blaze of light and came to my rescue. I mounted him and we were off galloping through the jungle away from the danger and enemy. We continued for what seemed a length of time until we came to the shore of the sea and raced along the waters edge. The horse stopped, I dismounted as I knew that this was a place of safety. The horse left and I stood alone in the place of safety knowing that I had been rescued by grace.

    End of dream.

    I immediately woke up with the song ‘Something beautiful, something good, all my confusion He understood. All I had to offer Him was brokenness and strife, but he did something beautiful with my life’. The sun was shining in on me and I knew that I knew that I knew, He was the great white stallion that rescued me.
  13. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Tony H2o,

    It seems that many of God's messages are revealed to you through proliferous dreams.

    Although I am a very deep (heavy) sleeper and although I dream a lot and remember many of my dreams, God chooses to communicate with me differently.

    God communicates with me when I am wide awake and His message is always direct and concise. It usually comes in the form of an instruction. I do not always understand the "why" of God's message when it is being delivered, however I always heed His word and the reason for it becomes very clear shortly thereafter. Does God ever communicate with you in this manner?
  14. Flash Registered Senior Member

    Hey, I'm not the one in Tony's dream...
    Besides...I'm over here eating steak and lobster..... yummmmmm

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  15. Ivan Kruk Registered Senior Member


    Thanks Tony H2o for this topic idea.

    I really enjoy it. I like it very much.
    Tony you are experienced with very interesting dream. My dreams are often so fragmented (like a present „action” movies) that after I wake up, I remember only some short and more significant events from my dreams. But sometimes (very seldom) I have a dreams, which I remember in every details to this day.
    I want to describe you one of such dreams. Those dream turned my attention to UFO matters and probably thanks to that dream I take a part in this forum.
    I was about 20 years ago. That dream was extremely realistic and quite different to my previous ones. I walked along the street with a girl. The season of the year was different than in time when I slept. I was deep into the night so the street was really empty – no people were seen. We talked about nothing. Suddenly I saw a flying saucer, which flew on my right side. It shined in yellow color. When I saw it I became so frightened, that I wasn’t able to move any part of my body (I have never suffered such fright the second time till now). The saucer turned left and when it was in front of me it shot to me a flash of light. After that I saw only dark point in the middle of my view and plenty of light rays coming from that dark point. I felt that I’m falling down somewhere into deep space. After I wake up (not from a dream but from falling down) I realized that I sat in one of armchairs located near the walls of narrow and long room. Some of the other armchairs were engaged by other people, who were unknown to me except one woman who sat in front of me. I was very happy that I saw her there but I couldn’t remember her face so I don’t know who she was. It was not more than one second while I saw her, then my dream finished and I wake up. I was still in my bed.

    The most amazing to me with that dream was that I had never suffered such extremely different feelings that in my real live –I have never suffered them second time. Another amazing thing was that I first time read about taking by light by UFO about 7 years after that dream.
    I still think, why I was so frightened in my dream. When I imagine the case that I see a flying saucer I feel that I should be happy because I see something excited, interesting. Why it was in different way - I have no idea. But I’m quite sure that it wasn’t a warning to be dread of aliens, because inside the saucer I felt very happy.
    Because we are in Religious Debate I have to add that that dream had no influence to my relation with God. It only turned my attention to Aliens subject as one of my hobbies.

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    Hey, how do you like it?
    The Ravens Are Not What They Seem

    [This message has been edited by Ivan Kruk (edited January 21, 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by Ivan Kruk (edited January 21, 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by Ivan Kruk (edited January 21, 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by Ivan Kruk (edited January 21, 2000).]
  16. Ivan Kruk Registered Senior Member


    Now I see that I have to revise my opinion about how often God speaks to people.
    You are lucky women.

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    I have met with god only twice. The first time I described in one of my previous posts. Now I want to tell something about the second one.
    I was happened during meditation. Suddenly I saw (under closed eyes) a big ball, which brought closer to me. It looked like a sun just before sunset – big, orange and very warm.
    When It was so close to me that I could clasped It, I became so happy that I thing such happiness is experienced by other people very, very seldom. After that occurrence I was filling It warm in my body during the next some days.
    I didn’t get any messages during that meeting, but half a year after, I realized that my outlook of the live had been completely rebuilt during that time

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    The Ravens Are Not What They Seem

  17. Micah Registered Senior Member

    I have had experiences where I was out of my body and saw beautiful mountains and oceans, I floated w/ a guide who was bright and full of light and I felt at peace, but when i questioned who the being was, it turned very ugly...Fear engulped me as a fear never known.. The experience is very real, the feeling is always good, but there is a driving force good and evil.. It is like a road map, if you dont have one you dont know where your going..you open your soul up to some pretty powerful forces. Since, I believe the truth is Christ, I know that in such a state, the light (the deciever) dosent want you to question who he is......and is definitely an evil and powerful spirit...
  18. Lori Registered Senior Member


    I almost forgot. I'm 32. I could have sworn that you were close to my age. After all, old farts don't use words like "suck-worthy". Why do I sound younger than that? I look younger too.

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    "Go Jesus, go! Go Jesus, go!"

    I finally get to be the cheerleader that I always wanted to be but could not, as I was not a fluff chick.
  19. Flash Registered Senior Member

    Ok, I do not doubt your experience at all.
    However, keep in mind that just because this one turned out to be evil doesn't mean that all are. Just as all people are not evil..etc.. you get the picture.
    There are those out there that when asked do not react ugly or evil...and are very peaceful and loving. You just haven't met the right ones yet

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  20. ISDAMan Thank You Jesus! Registered Senior Member

    I think it is good that I too should share a dream given of me by God. When I say given of me by God, I mean that it is much like the same way that Job had his ordeal come through the allowance of God. I doubt that He was holding me up as a good servant like Job. I'm sure He was allowing a warning to come my way. This was a dream that was more than just a dream. It did involved evil spirits and was something akin to God saying, "You want it. Here it is! Can you deal with it?" Here goes.

    To give a setting for this dream, I was a young Marine in Redstone Arsenal, AL. I had been there a bit longer than most new students would usually be as I had to wait for enough new students to arrive so that we could begin our basic explosives trainings classes. I had been there a month without a class of my own. For the most part, being part of a very very small Marine detachment on an Army base, there was not much to do. I did basic office work during the day and at night, I began to get into the party life. I went out every night. I began to drink more and more. I never got drunk or in any trouble. In fact, I found that alcohol made me mellow and frisky so to speak. As you might expect, women were ultra high priority on my list of things to get to. I even had a regular schedule for doing things so that I could party. I would sleep in two broken shifts so that I could go out most every night. One night, I'm not sure why I was not going out, perhaps I had (guard) duty earlier in the night, I do not know how or why. All I can say is that I found myself, in my dream, alone and in a vast field. There was no scenery at all to look at. Strangely, the ground was not visible. There was a thick mist like the type in Hollywood movies. I do not recall feeling cold or uncomfortable in any way. Just looking around, I began to hear, in the distance, music. I love music and had been involved heavily with it by this point in my life. This music was different somehow. It flowed as sweetly as any classical piece. It had the feel of contemporary chamber music. It had accompaniment, though, I could not tell where or what kind. As the intensity of the music grew, I began to be able to hear that there was a distinct vocal pattern along with, this, the most beautiful music I had ever heard. It seemed as though the source of the music was approaching me. Intrigued, I moved in for a closer inspection. Off in the distance I could see some three or possibly four women wearing wispy white flowing semi-translucent gowns. As we approached each other I was awestruck with their beauty. Their music, with a harmonic resonance, rang in my head. I still didn't even understand a single word they were saying. It was just so loud though. There was no pain or discomfort. In fact, it was quite enjoyable. Though I had been intrigued by the music, it was the sight of these tall, slender, seemingly floating females that drew me in the most. That's what made me rush in. I knew I had to meet them. I could just envision the fun I could have. As we were nearly face to face, I could not understand their words or why they sang, so repeatedly, the same thing over and over. I was just stunned by their beauty. No woman I had ever seen looked like these women. Even slender, they were perfect. I'm usually into more plump women. I like them to have a nice thin to medium coat of fat. These women were nothing of the sort,... and my goodness,... the height. It seemed as though my perspective was shewed. They were taller than me and I'm 6' 2". They must have been a good 7' tall each. There were differences in their beauty, however, they were each equally beautiful. As it is that I seemed nearly close enough to touch them, though was not, the music grew more intense. It was gathering up my emotions. I could feel the arousal of the steady chant. Just about then, my ears were opened to the words they spoke. Still, it seemed to take me a while before I realized what it was that I was hearing from them. I was so very enamored with their beauty that other things did not register well. As the music appeared to drop back, the words were in the forefront and as follows: Satan is your friend. Let him in. Let him in. He just wants to love you. Let him in. Let him in. This, they chanted again and again as they moved round about me to encircle me. That is when things really seemed to change. There was no change in the scenery. Still, as I began to back away from them, something was different. My anxiety began to rise greatly at just their words. I thought to myself, confused, about how women so beautiful could be so twisted. I did not notice my own perversion. Still, there was that feeling of someone being there behind me. By this point, the women seemed to be ominously looming over me chanting even more intently and full of passion. I seemed small,... smaller than before. Or, perhaps, they seemed bigger. There was a marked change in perspective. They, though looking docile, were more powerful than me and larger than just moments before. I thought to myself that I need to get away and as I turned around because of the erie feeling of someone being there, I could see no one. I began to walk away confused an looking over my shoulder at times. As I noticed that they were beginning to follow me, and strangely enough, these women always kept an even formation, I picked up the pace. Well, they pursued the more. Their music seemed to be longing and calling out to me as it were to say, "DON'T GO! DON'T GO!" I had never been chased by women in my life, but, I wasn't about to be caught by these! Just then, as it is that I guess I made up my mind not to stay, the music took an abrupt change. It was attention grabbing. It was like unto the type given to royalty. This music was majestic and demanding. My attention was at hand. My stride was stopped. My body, I turned. I looked. The women, in there formation, parted. From what must have been a wall of mist, I saw a giant figure... larger than the women,... much much larger. His power was obvious. As the mist cleared away from him, I could see him clearly. He was strong,... and my goodness,... he was down right gorgeous! It was so strange. He was clearly masculine, yet, the beauty of those women paled in comparison. The sight of him was frightful. All about him, he had the look of perfection. Still, he made my skin crawl!!!! I knew him on the spot. I knew him even before he broke completely through the mist. He joined in the, now, more subdued song of the women. I am uncertain of the words. All I know is that their musicianship was beyond compare. I understand, however, that Satan was standing before me calling me as though he was a good friend. He also spoke words I can't recall. Still, I know the essence. He had bid that I befriend him and just give him a chance. He attempted to entice me in. I turned and began to run away. His voice became more intense. He gave chase. He and the women, as usual, simply floated in the mist and could keep up with me without effort. I ran as hard as I could. Still, he and they kept their even distance and always kept pace with me. They seemed to have a limit of how close they could come to me. As I ran, he and they called out to me. They were the background voices. His voice was gentile and forceful like a used car salesman. His lies were clear. Still I can't recall the words he spoke to me. Fear had me running so hard that I jumped up in a panic into the wold of the woke. I looked around my small barracks room in terror. I was alone and in the dark. I immediatly ran for the door!!! I had to get out of there fast!!! I tell you no lie. Mister big bad Marine, tough, trained to kill, seemingly fearless, prone to danger, the master of self control was terrified of the idea of going back into that room alone and in the dark. I tell you it felt worse than being a child and thinking that the boogie man would get me! It sounds funny now. I had faced some real terrors in my life that I had never flinched under the stress of. Coming face to face with Satan, that's a whole different matter!!! I wound up in the rec room, down stairs, until day break. I didn't even lock my door when I left. I wasn't about to go back in there alone to do it either. Oh how I wish I had been like Daniel and, with the remembrance of my dream, run from danger of sin. In real life, just the very next night, I was back at it again. I spent some three to four months there. Most of the time wasted away at night partying. All the while, learning a trade in explosives. Needless to say, if it was not for God's looking after me, I could have hurt or killed someone or myself. I did get away from the night life more when I bought a bike. I used to love to ride for hours every day. As this took up more of my time, I had less time to party. Still, I was not observant of God as I should have been. I am thankful that He has kept me away from and brought me back from such dangerous sins. I was on an easy road to alcoholism. Even more, that dream was a clear warning that loose women would get me into more trouble than I knew. If only I had listened!!! I would have avoided much pain in my life. I would not wait for God to choose the right woman for me. I had to go out and find my own gratification. The sin sure felt good at the time. Soon, it lost it's savor and I was left wanting.

    God's Word has been right all along. Follow and avoid the pitfalls,

    [This message has been edited by ISDAMan (edited January 23, 2000).]
  21. Flash Registered Senior Member

    Man..... all of you are soooooooooooooo
    soooooooo CLOSE-MINDED. I will say the same thing to you.....just because you had an experience which was negative does not mean that all spirits are evil. Funny..a lot of the stories I have heard recently all say that this evil was shown to them...
    SOOOOOOO what does that tell you?????
    Hey, you were not even close to God at the time..... I mean...I know how you feel about drinking...sooooooo what does that tell you???
  22. ISDAMan Thank You Jesus! Registered Senior Member


    You are correct. All spirits are not evil. God is Spirit and is the first Spirit. He is Good. Clearly, my post shows that I was shown the evil that was behind the pleasure I sought. I did not listen and I found that evil. I had to pay the price for not listening to the warning. The only reason I was given the warning was because I was in a state of being where in I was a child of God that would not obey God. I was living as though I had forgotten God. God has been good to mark the evil before us with placards so as to tell us that there is a minefield of sin ahead. If we disregard His signs, when we find damage and pain, it should come as no surprise. I'll tell you this also. When you are lined up on the side of God, that is when Satan attacks you most. Someone that does not belong to God requires little attention from Satan. The natural sinfulness of man will do a great deal of the work for him. Once we choose to hear the calling of God, Satan has one goal. That is to stop you with every possible problem and pleasure he can. Once you do accept Christ, his job changes. Now, his focus is to make you ineffective for the Lord's business. God let me know in advance how Satan would attack and, like an idiot, I went right along with it. I was ineffective until I was ready to submit to the authority of Christ. As long as I submitted to the pleasures of women, alcohol, and parties, I was submitting to the will of Satan, which is that I should do nothing in the will of God. I do know that there are good spirits sent of God for the benefit of His children. The Bible tells me so. I also know that there are those that are evil. The Bible tells me so.

    Jesus Love Me. This I Know,
  23. Flash Registered Senior Member

    Well...if God cannot accept people as they are the way they are..then who needs him?
    First, God wants people to do things his way..ohhhh..and don't go and pull that..he will change your desires and heart crap with me. Thing is...you all talk of the free will that God has given us... there is a loop
    hole in everything..isn't there? If one becomes "saved" then God "CHANGES" their desires..etc.. is he not molding people just like HE wants and desires???? Before long..
    that person is nothing but a puppet..doing EVERYTHING just for him...in every way shape or form. What does that person become then?
    I think H-kon put it best when he said
    Zombies. What is really left of a person
    when "God" forces his will and desires upon a person? Not a lot...not at all. So I guess it is true what christians state.. God changes lives... Yeah, EXACTLY like HE wants!

    Faith: not wanting to know what is true.
    ..........Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

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