Dreams and Visions

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Tony H2o, Jan 19, 2000.

  1. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,122
    O.K., Flash,

    Supposing the mother in the book wrote that she had overcome through the grace of Jesus Christ and this is what brought the abusive mom to her realization of her wrong-doing to her children?
     
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  3. Flash Registered Senior Member

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    771
    TS,
    Good question. In order to answer this fully..I need for you to explain how she overcame through the grace of Jesus.
    Then I'll answer.

    ------------------
    Faith: not wanting to know what is true.
    ..........Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
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  5. Micah Registered Senior Member

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    Because she realized and took responsiblity for that the evil that was in her heart, that caused her to abuse..she then was humbled and "believed" that Christ was the son of God, she desired for Christ to be Lord of her life and was able to ask God to forgive her for the evil that she was born with....Now she has the spirit of Christ in her soul, now she is empowered with love and equipped with power..power to overcome..
     
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  7. Flash Registered Senior Member

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    771
    Micah,
    What made her realize she even had evil in her heart? What brought her to that point?

    ------------------
    Faith: not wanting to know what is true.
    ..........Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
  8. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,122
    Hello again, Flash.

    For example.. Perhaps the mother in the book explains that a female visitor and she were talking in her kitchen when one of the kids interrupted their conversation... The mother immediately went into a rage and raised her hand to smack the child in anger... The visitor grabbed the mother's hand firmly (shocking the mother somewhat) and calmly instructed the child to go to another room and the child responded... the mother in the book then explained how the acquaintance and she talked about their mutual problem with anger, the situations in their respective lives which brought them to such anger and the resulting unchecked abuse of their children... the visitor goes on to explain how she had also abused her children terribly, how she was able to come to peace with her past, how she learned to forgive those who had wronged her in her life, how she learned to forgive herself and how she learned to love and live in right relationships with her children and others... all through the saving grace of Jesus Christ. The mother in the book goes on to explain that, through this experience, she came to the realization that what she was doing was wrong and that, just as the visitor did, she needed some powerful spiritual guidance in order to be able to forgive, accept others, truly love and live in right relationships with her children. The mother did not think it was possible to overcome her anger, however the visitor assured her that with the Spirit of Jesus Christ in her life, it was not only possible, but guaranteed. The visitor explained that it was Jesus Christ who brought her to the woman's home that day...

    This brought the mother in the book to accept Jesus Christ as her Savior. The mother in the book went on to explain that she, too, was now living proof of the saving grace of Jesus Christ and that it was the Spirit of Jesus Christ which encouraged her to share her not-so-proud "truth" with others so that they and the ones that they should be protecting from harm in this world, their children, could be saved from their anger.

    Through the grace of Jesus Christ, the woman who was "reading" the book now realized the "truth"... that what had been done to her by others was wrong, that she needed to forgive those who had wronged her and come to terms with the situations in her life which brought her to her anger, that what she was doing to her children was also wrong, that she needed to ask for forgiveness herself, that what she really wanted most was to live in love and right relationships with her children and others. She knew that it would take some powerful spiritual guidance for her to be able to overcome her situation...

    Based on the testimony of the mother in the book and her visitor, the woman reading the book realized that she would receive the guidance, strength, love and peace that she needed through the saving grace of Jesus Christ... "The Truth."


    [This message has been edited by truestory (edited January 26, 2000).]
     
  9. Flash Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    771
    TS,
    Well, from what it looks like to me..the truth of the matter is this... she realized what she was doing was wrong due to learning from others...not from Jesus.

    She will either choose to forgive others or not....when it comes down to it...she is the one that makes that choice....not Jesus.
    You'd think she'd learn that by being abused when she was a child is no bloody excuse to ever harm another child..... that in itself is low.....which is beside the point..
    The "spirit of truth" was revealed to her first before she ever made a decision to give her life over to Jesus.

    ------------------
    Faith: not wanting to know what is true.
    ..........Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
  10. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,122
    Flash,

    The visitor was filled with the Spirit of Truth, the saving grace of Jesus Christ. It was Jesus Christ who sent the visitor to the mother's house that day. That is how the mother who wrote the book learned the truth -through the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

    That mother, once filled with the Spirit of Truth (the saving grace of Jesus Christ), was encouraged by the Spirit of Truth, to "write" the book so that others who were harboring the same type of anger might learn the truth and be saved through the grace of Jesus Christ.

    That is how the woman who "read" the book learned the truth and how she and her children were saved from her anger - through the Spirit of Truth, the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

    By the way, except for the part about writing the book, this is a true story... It actually happened to an acquaintance of mine years ago.
     
  11. Flash Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    771
    TS,
    It was the words that became TRUTH to her about herself and the situation she was in.
    She became saved because at that moment when something so dramatic as that makes one weak and vulnerable...she'd be willing to do anything other than carry the load herself...so she "gave" in

    ------------------
    Faith: not wanting to know what is true.
    ..........Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
  12. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,122
    Flash,

    Previously you stated that the words of others didn't mean anything to her. It was the words of one who was filled with the Spirit of Truth, the saving grace of Jesus Christ, that saved her.
     
  13. Flash Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    771
    TS,
    We have one too many mothers *S* I was speaking about the mother in the book...not the one reading the book. Still at that... you know how people can tell you things over and over...and it just doesn't click at that time...then wham...the very same things are said and it's like hearing it for the first time???? The Spirit of Truth is not only words...ya know? However, when one accepts the truth it is then that they are able to grow and advance.

    ------------------
    Faith: not wanting to know what is true.
    ..........Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
  14. truestory Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,122
    Yes, I know, Flash.

    When words are spoken through the saving grace of Jesus Christ, it is like hearing them for the first time.
     
  15. Flash Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    771
    TS.... That's soooooooooooooo not what I meant! grrrrrrrrrrrr...... you're all alike...... *sigh*
     
  16. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,795
    Each person hangs on to their own 'truth', if it helps them to reconcile their human condition then that is what matters.

    I think the most likely truth is that we've all got it wrong, or at least not quite right. Maybe that's why I and others like me keep searching, because the truths we perceive are iconclusive and we can never consider them as final, maybe we'll never find our conclusive truths but the fun (like the travelling before the destination) is in the searching (for me).
    Then again, I truly believe that people who have found and embraced their own personal religious/spiritual panacea must feel pretty content and secure which is no bad thing and I'm happy for them.

    A lot of people on this forum persist in trying to 'prove', that their truth is final and want to convince the others, what a waste of time.
    Surely it's more important for the people of faith to tell us what they were like before their 'enlightenment' and the experiences which led to that faith, why they chose the faith they did and their own personal motivation for keeping to it.
    When they are challenged to 'prove' something about their faith by a person of the world they should do it either in a logical way that the unbeliever can understand or not at all, because their religious dogma and patronisingly pious quotes only go to alienate the listener even more.
    The people of no faith should express their thoughts and ideas clearly and abstain from ambiguousness as this only frustrates anyone who wants to take part in a serious debate.

    I'm not saying that none of this takes place, it's just that it should happen much more often. Pour your psyche out on me baby and let's see a few more

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  17. 666 Registered Senior Member

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    378
    I sometimes have some prety funky dreams, but I don't take them as real. As far as visions well I could on for hours, but I will keep it short. Think about preceptions, touch, sight, smell, hearing. they are quite limmited. We only see a sliver of the light spectrum same goes for hearing and smell. Our touch is also limmited if something is to cold it feels hot and if something is to hot it can feel cold. It is just distortion of our preceptions.

    Truestory,

    Don't push Flash to hard about opening up and sharing. If you do Flash will probly just pull back all the more.

    ------------------
    All I know is what I understand. All I understand is what I know.

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  18. Tony H2o Registered Senior Member

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    441
    Truestory:
    Quote:
    "God communicates with me when I am wide awake and His message is always direct and concise. It usually comes in the form of an instruction. I do not always understand the "why" of God's message when it is being delivered, however I always heed His word and the reason for it becomes very clear shortly thereafter. Does God ever communicate with you in this manner?"

    Thanks for the question TS. I'm really just like you, moment by moment communion, moment by moment instruction. He walks with me and talks with me, Holy Spirit to my spirit and my spirit to Holy Spirit. He also leads and instructs me by His Word the Bible, not just picking out bits and pieces but by the whole counsel of God. Anything that is revealed to me through a dream or vision is tested against His Word and by the Spirit of Truth the Holy Spirit of God.

    I wish I too could say that I always heed His word like you do but I make many mistakes, which mostly become apparent after I've made them.

    Which man can see the error of his own ways?
    His wife.

    So to answer your question God speaks to me through dreams, the Bible, the Holy Spirit and by others who are close to me.

    The reason I put this topic up was to try to encourage people to test where their "truth" comes from. To test the foundation of their beliefs but also to be aware that God who is sovereign and almighty and can use the experiences of their past to work for the cause of their salvation.

    I hope this helps.

    Take care H2o


    Flash,

    I want to say some things to you but am unsure of where to start. I've been reading your discussion with TS, Lori and others.

    There is no denying the fact that you have had some kind of experience with what you refer to as the spirit of truth. I do not think that what you have said regarding aliens etc is out there. I think that what has happened to you is very real and something that you hold dear to.

    I am not going to bore you with details about similar things that happened to me before becoming a Christian. All I will say is that these things were all dear to me and pursued eagerly although naively until God spoke.

    Flash the things that I hold close to me now are the things that are tried, true and tested. Tested by the Word of God and the real Spirit of Truth, I know your thoughts on Christianity and religion, I know your thoughts on atrocities carried out in the name of God, I've read enough of your information to see why you take the stand you do and believe me some of the things you put up are extremely thought provoking.

    But its what I don't see that concern's me greatly, that is equality.

    You apply a very heavy measuring stick to God asking for explanation on this that and the other looking for loop holes or trying to find error at every turn, you test Him very harshly. Yet on the other side of the coin is your spirit of truth, the one that TS is trying to get you to define, sure Mooncat jumps in and says that maybe your shy about it but your never shy about arguments about God or His Word. Why is that Flash? Why do you test God with a different measuring stick than the one you use for your spirit of truth? Why do you hammer Christ and His Word yet when asked for reasonable explanation on what you hold dear seem to stammer and falter. Could it be that if you tested the thing you hold dear it would be revealed for that which it really is? Could it be that if the foundation of your belief was explained that others could then throw discredit on it and test it with the same measuring stick that you so desperately use against God? Could it be Flash that God is trying to show you something through Lori, TS, Micah and others that you may not really want to see but need to?

    Flash I'm not launching a personal attack I just want you to apply the same measure to your beliefs as you do to ours. So please if you are earnest and honest about wanting the spirit of truth then test all things evenly and from a reliable source. If you have no source apart from you own subjective views then find one and test it, if it fails find another and test it, if it fails find another and test it. Eventually you will come to the real truth, believe me when I say that the journey will hurt but at the end you will know the real truth and it will be the real truth.

    So please Flash test your aliens and spirit of truth, even darkness can appear as light to us when we want to believe in something so earnestly.

    Take care H2o.
     
  19. Flash Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    771
    Tony,
    I'm sure what you are saying makes great sense to you......and perhaps if I was an outsider.....it might make sense to me as well....... let me assure you, Tony-
    you are barking up the wrong tree. I have no problem in hammering God/Jesus. That is because my intentions are good....whether you believe it or not.
    I do not know about you..but for me it's not always easy just to share personal things..although I have been getting much better at it... NO, there isn't some deep dark reason for it...it's just the way I am.
    Sooooooooo in that I am shy. Has nothing to do with people hammering me with the same force I have toward christian bliefs.... trust me...Lori does enough of that to equal this entire board!!! (I didn't mean anything bad by that Lori.....ok?

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    Testing the aliens and Spirit of Truth..by doing this are you speaking about doing so from the bibical advice????? If not..how do you suggest that I do so????? Let me assure you......the PEACE, JOY, and LOVE that has been made known to me issssssss veryyyyyy real!!! There is no way these could ever come from an evil force.
    I do appreciate you saying you felt my experiences are not out there. Regarding your experiences...I would be interested in hearing them ..... let me pose this question.
    How do you know God wasn't trying to stop you with yours so you would stop progressing and follow lies...his lies??? You tested God with his own test??????

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    ------------------
    Faith: not wanting to know what is true.
    ..........Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
     
  20. Tony H2o Registered Senior Member

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    441
    Flash,

    Thanks for the response.

     
  21. Flash Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    771
    Tony,
    I do know who I fight against, Tony. Sure, there are some "christians" who I detest. Not because they are christians...that has nothing to do with it. Rather, it's their method and jerky way of doing things.. it does not set well with me at all! The one I fight against...rather trying to expose and show their true colors is Jesus. It's not because of other "christians" actions that I do this. It is due to the truth and knowledge I have regarding him.
    Paul, huh? LOL Ok, we can go with that comparison if you'd like..*chuckle*
    Yes, I am aware of the story....however, I have not thought about it in comparison to myself. Thing is...what did Jesus do to get
    Paul's attention, Tony? Did Jesus emanate the ever so popular and powerful love? Is this what got his attention? NO. I wonder just why Jesus didn't use that approach. Well..did Jesus just talk to him...explain his side to him and listen to Paul's.. not really. What is it Jesus did??? He struck Paul with blindness. Wow... why such a drastic attention getter? Why would he use this type of method? In that alone I question his intentions. My reasoning on this is if someone caused another to go blind...wouldn't you do just about anything to get your sight back? I have one word for that .....MANIPULATION. I do not cry for truth....I know truth, Tony. It is just a different version than what you have.
    Well, I see where you are coming from...but, if you are trying to get me to see this for my own benefit..well..

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    ...
    Ok, I believe it is not possible live in a constant state of peace, love, and joy ...BUT, when troubled times hit...and I feel that it isn't there...all I have to do is look within and find it. So they are always there...just not always at the surface.
    Ummmmm..... why not???



    [This message has been edited by Flash (edited February 01, 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by Flash (edited February 01, 2000).]
     
  22. Tony H2o Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    441
    What the heck is LOL????


    Bingo!! Lights are on and H2o is home. Hey Flash I now see where your coming from, talk about a slow penny drop speed.

    You basically think God is a manipulative bully, you probably also think that your parents, teachers, cops, defence force, politicians etc etc are the same. If not then NO FAIR because all of these people at some time have manipulate your life more often for your good than harm.

    You think that because Paul became blind for a period that God was punishing him, you probably think that when Zechariah who was John the Baptisers dad became mute that God was being a big bully. If so then you should think that Dexters dad who took his internet away for say probably not doing his homework or coming home wasted from the dance the other night is a bully or perhaps the school teacher who sends Dex off to the principles office for not doing his homework is a bully. No of course you don't think they are because they had a reason for picking on poor little Dexter, wow surprise it was for his own good!

    So all those nasty atrocities you keep thinking about in the Bible all the bully boy tactics that God uses are because he's a big meanie. I mean why else would he plague Egypt? Why else would he destroy the people and cities of Sodom and Gahmora? Why else would he flood the world and drown every living thing? Why else would he at the close of time have every person stand judgement and those who are not covered by his grace go to eternal damnation? Because he's a big bully??? No Flash very very wrong, way off base man. I now know where you are coming from Flash you have a skewed and twisted view of who God is and its been placed there by the deceiver. Shock horror Flash could it be that what TS, Lori and others have been trying to get through to you will never sink in? GOD is GOD, He is the GREAT I AM, just the same way that Dexter copped it for doing the wrong thing (and in his opinion he's probably hard done by) God has to let us cop it to WAKE US UP. Dex's old man probably knows a little bit more and has
    a little bit more wisdom than Dex may give him credit for, and if that wisdom shows him that what Dex is up to will in the long term cause him harm then because of his love for Dex he pulls the reins in. Hey I'm sure that he doesn't want Dex mad or angry at him, I'm even surer of the fact that it hurts him deeply when Dex calls him a so and so for doing it but at the end of the day he has done what will be the best for Dex in the long term. Are you getting this Flash?? Do you hear?? Are you listening to what God is trying to say to you through this?? Jesus said that the devil comes to lie, kill and destroy. Jesus spoke of how God wants none to perish. But this will not stop an almighty, all knowing (regardless of what Big Bad Boris may think) all powerful God from withdrawing His protection or withholding his anger when we blatantly ignore every opportunity He gives to turn from evil and behold His Son.

    Get this Flash, you have been told, GOD has extended His hand to you time and time again. How many times will you spit on it Flash?? How many times will you reject what is being said to you Flash? How great will your anguish be if you find yourself before His throne without Him knowing you and you knowing Him? Sorry Flash but with God everything is black and white, right or wrong. Their is no grey, there is no middle ground, your either for or against Him no in between. Flash the decision is yours, go ahead Flash choose, hey maybe you will surprise us all and instead of saying all the time that we need to see things from your view point, that were all the same narrow closed minded hypocrites you might just try to look at it from Gods point of view. Choose this day whom you will serve Flash.

    I really do wish that I could make that decision for you, I hope and pray Flash that God will show you a portion of what He has shown me, and I mean actually shown me. Not what I've been indoctrinated with, not what you or others may think I've been or have brainwashed myself with but a real encounter with the great I AM. After you have stood in front of Him your focus changes Flash your whole life changes. He took me from being a thief, arsonist, drug addicted surf Nazi to where I am today. Along the way I endured immense hardships, no food, no where to live, no job and a limited education all adding up to nothing. So do I blame Him?? Or do I learn from Him through these things?? He took me from suicide to His throne. He stepped in because He knew my deepest cry was for Him. If you choose to let Him Flash He can do the same for you, hey you may not be like I was but He can see through you Flash. He sees through the hard shell that we build around us and only He knows us the way we know us and even deeper.


    Give Him a chance to show you Himself in a different light than the present. Don't keep being angry at Him Flash because it will destroy you, it won't destroy Him. You will end up bitter and twisted by it Flash. Please don't.

    Take the greatest care of how you walk and what you say. Please think deeply on these things Flash don't let anger consume you.

    H2o

    PS Dexter, no offence is intended by using you as an example.

    PSS Flash, The test God thing, look it up in your Bible. Will man test God?
     
  23. faerieshaman killer of terrorists Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    241
    Merry Meet and love and light Flash....you fight the good fight lol..glad to see your still around, i argue with what i would call 'fundies' all the time being a witch in the mid of the damn bible belt but the Goddess smiles on us all. Take care just thought id jump in and say hi to ya.
    Blessed Be,

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    Eric Cooper
     

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