Egyptian energy SOLVED?!?

Discussion in 'Alternative Theories' started by Bob-a-builder, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    18,951
    So now you're forgetting, or ignoring, your claim about "safety valve/blast walls (that, incidentally, show nowhere near the damage on the corners) so if the gas lifted it would enter the release areas on the lid"?
     
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  3. Bob-a-builder Registered Senior Member

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    Wow!

    Just Wow.
     
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  5. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

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    18,951
    Exactly: you have no facts to support your contention.
     
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  7. Bob-a-builder Registered Senior Member

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    you mean this?

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    Yes. If I were too boil water inside a square meatloaf pot and placed a small square block on top.

    It would gain pressure inside until the lid was seemingly weightless due to opposing pressure.

    The lid would then start to shake and move like any pot lid would.

    HOWEVER; IF the lid had vents in the ends like in above. Perhaps the escaping gas would escape through them instead.

    NOTE: This is not a feature on all of these boxes. It appears like they may have invented a method to prevent such corner damages.

    This was a new improved model. If I then vented my pot similarly. The steam would seek those indentations and steer the pot in a more linear fashion.

    Like in photo below. See corner and lid.

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    This doesn't rub off on anyone as simple common sense?

    Again.. This can be discussed in mainstream physics if you do not grasp how pressure would affect a lid.
     
  8. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,155
    Only if it lifted exactly evenly, which it would not. One side would lift first.
    Have you dropped the piezoelectric idea?

    By the way, it seems we know how the Egyptians brewed their beer and it certainly did NOT require 70 ton stone pressure vessels. : https://www.ancient.eu/article/1033/beer-in-ancient-egypt/

    Why in fact would it require pressure at all? It is only modern industrial lager beer that is pressurised with CO2 from a gas bottle. The notion that pressure was needed seems completely anachronistic.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  9. Bob-a-builder Registered Senior Member

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    122
    I really think it would be highly silly to discuss the dynamics of a how a flat (interior) lid would lift under steam pressure.

    So. Instead of just bullying my explanation of the physics of a lid. How would YOU suggest a square lid behave upon the roof of a square pot if the water was boiling creating pressure?

    a) The lid would remain flat. No pressure can overcome a lid
    b) The lid would move evenly along straight planes and would not angle.
    c) The lid would move seemingly by random based upon geometry and pressures.

    Are there people in physics that would know this answer or would it be like talking to a wall there also?

    Let's move this particular aspect to physics. Maybe someone there will speak up and say how it is.

    I actually wouldn't want to waste anyone's time on such obvious answers. Yet this is a mainstream physics question. The pressure and lid thing at least.
     
  10. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,951
    Nope.
    And therefore those "vents" would show far more damage than the corners would.
    In other words you're just making sh*t up. Again.
    Yeah right.
    Now look at the photo with your (supposed)"vents".
    Significant corner damage, no really noticeable damage to the "vents". In other words your idea is nonsense.
    I have to admit that it doesn't. Then again, your definition of "common sense" doesn't quite match that of most people here.
    You keep saying this. There's no need because A) I know how pressure "affects lids" (I've had over 40 years as a design engineer AND worked closely with Lloyds - and others - on pressure vessels) and B) everything that needs saying has been said in this thread (although you, still, manage to dismiss/ ignore it).
     
  11. Bob-a-builder Registered Senior Member

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    122
    Obviously you do not.

    Like I said earlier. Your comments are almost incredible in their lack of grasp.

    Instead of bothering people in physics.

    Tell me how you think a square lid would behave if you boiled water in a square pan. Just flat surfaces.

    You don't seem to grasp that the air would push up on the entire lid simultaneously. The bulk of the pressure would be in the interior.

    Small amounts of pressure would begin to escape as the lid elevated enough in whatever parts of it had the highest pressure or structural flaws (if any).

    At this point you could move a 10 ton lid with your fingers. It would require some pushing, but it would move.

    It would not be an instant blowout as inertia of a huge lid would need to be overcome, but it would drift.

    The air pressure inside would be equal to the weight of the lid.

    It may even appear to wobble and shake as the pressure finds ways to escape (like any pot).

    If your cooking pot was not fit to the pot. Example:If you put a cutting board on top of any pot for example. The cutting board would not be on top when you return 10 minutes later. How?

    Well therein lies the mystery? To you.

    Do you think the cutting board will just slowly seep pressure out of one side and that is it?

    Try it at home. Boil in any pot and place a cutting board on top. I bet the cutting board does not stay covering the entire pot. At least some portion of the pot will be exposed to allow the maximum exhaust.

    If the pressure built too slowly, then perhaps the effect would be lessened and much more time would be required. The higher the pressures the quicker the response of the lid

    But hey.

    Wheres a design engineer when you need one?

    You really want to discuss this in mainstream section? I'm trying to not embarrass you.

    Here.. similar concept (just upside down).

     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  12. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,951
    When you wrote "obviously" what you should have written was "in my uninformed opinion".
    On the one hand I have actual engineering experience, over decades, and you have... what?
    But, given that the real world isn't as precise as mathematics it wouldn't lift while remaining flat: i.e. it would tip/ tilt and vent to one side or another.
    10 tons is still 10 tons. Therefore it wouldn't move with just a push from fingers.
    Wrong again. ANY "hole" would vent the excess pressure. That's why even circular pan lids "rattle" when sat over a boiling pan.
    They lift. They vent. Then drop back. Then the pressure builds up again causing a repeat.
    Ah right. So NOT lifting "like a hovercraft" then?
    Because the board would lift unevenly and slide off.
    I know it would.
    So, again, the board doesn't lift "like a hovercraft" but does lift unevenly...
    Nope. It depends on the pressure, not the time.
    This makes no sense.
    The lid will lift at a given pressure.
    The only way you can have higher pressures is to have a heavier lid. But the principle is exactly the same.
    I'll ask again: what, precisely, qualifications do you have in this regard?
    No point: you're obviously not going to learn anything or change your (erroneous) conclusion.
    Given that I know what I'm talking about you're hardly going to do that.
     
  13. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,207
    Uh. don't actually need em.
    This is your claim; the onus is on you to defend it.

    And "well suppose it could be like this" is not a defense.
     
  14. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,951
    No, that was ME saying Bob had no facts to support HIS contention.
     
  15. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,951
    Yep, that's similar (in the sense of not at all the same.)
    In the video the pressure has already been set before being fitted to the "plate". In other words that pressure is above and beyond what it would have reached if it built up while there was any available vent for it.
    In the case of a pan/ lid the pressure will vent as soon as it's capable of lifting the lid and thereby reduce.
    But I wouldn't really expect you to understand that...
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,207
    Your assertion - and appeal to evidence - was that it would lift at a corner - which you thought would explain the busted corners.
    It won't.
     
  17. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,207
    Actually, Bob himself did.


    No. You really actually said it would hover like a hovercraft:

     
  18. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    14,207
    Yeah. That.

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    Why is this guy even being entertained? He's just making it up as he goes along. He doesn't know the first thing about any of the science involved.
     
  19. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,951
    Oh, STILL waiting for you to support your claim that the Egyptians had electroplating...
     
  20. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,729
    's batman !
    my mummy could beat up your mummy !
    Ka-ZOWweeee !
    lets turn the planet bat signal light on i cant see to go weewee

    phheeww
    thankfully !
    im glad your NOT telling us !

    slightly confused ... your telling us here ?
    i thought you were "NOT" telling us ?

    Science is not an either/or optional reality

    Woooops!
    your telling us here !

    if you want to let science do the talking, you need to let science do the talking

    if you wish to de-frock a preacher in front of their church group then point & laugh at their junk... you may wish to ask yourself the value of the information you may learn from the event.

    i personally do not believe the majority of the official state position on Egyptology science.
    i think they are more interested in selling a tourist product to keep their fragile economy and fragile religious culture from the brink of civil war and terrorism.

    it is hard to fault dictators on being dictators
    more soo if the majority of the people are happy to keep them in power.
    the common working class Egyptian knows the need to maintain the tourist industry to keep the country on its feet and keep food on the table for the average Egyptian citizen.

    there is a fine line between tin-foil-hat-ism and alternative theorys
    part of the big issue with alternative theorys is that it attracts people with functional disorders where they feel functional by putting their energy into them.
    thats all well and good, but it tends to skew the over all results and make it easy to get lost into someone elses need to assert a functional result of a personal value, rather than deliver hard physical science data.
     
  21. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,729
    here is a thought for curiousness
    where is the wood they used to make the rollers to move all those blocks ?
    did they re-use all the wooden rollers ?
    how did they get the wooden rollers back down the pyramid without stopping the blocks being pulled up ?
    where was the massive forrets they would have needed to chop down to use as rollers and also to use to feed(cooking fires) their workers ?

    how exactly is a 70 ton block pulled up by HOW many people ? and suspended ?

    it is not easy to pick massive holes in their tourist storys but if science is the main issue then it needs to be answering a question rather than creating a question to leverage a concept of belief on
    that is making religion instead of performing science.
    though that is a common misconception in people whom have been raised to be normalised as base line indoctrinated to religious dictatorship of intellectual reason and authority.
     
  22. Bob-a-builder Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    122
    Some of you are absurd. You are trying to twist what I have said time and again.

    The first guy didn't realize crystals were used in gas barbecues.

    The last guy suggested I said a lid would lift and move evenly when faced with ever increasing chemical pressure such as boiling water.


    DWyddr -" No one said it would "stay straight on and always leak its pressure evenly""
    Dave - "Actually, Bob himself did."

    THis from DAVE who was to illiterate apparently to understand the word OTHER meant "OTHER theories include tombs for giants".

    That was in response to Randy who had said "HERE WE GO AGAIN WITH PIXIES" as if I had proposed such a stupid theory as Aliens And ANGELS.

    That also was putting words in my mouth.

    I WAS RIDICULING THE ALIEN THEORY! Not a literate bunch here but I'm guessing none of you are English first language so I digress.

    Yet more than a few of you suggested I was endorsing aliens. Randy and Dave. Dave even RE-READ my comment.. and said


    I said, "Other theories are that Aliens built them or were used to bury giants or angels."
    I was RIDICUILING THAT NOTION... Maybe actually READ COMMENTS before ridiculing them.


    Dave C said
    I read them and I detected no note of ridicule or facetiousness in them.
    Hmm. Who do you suppose is responsible for ensuring your intent is clear?



    AGAIN... THE WORDS "OTHER THEORIES" implies "NOT THIS ONE".

    I dont give anyone here credit for reading any of my posts. I think you are ALL here to jump on the topic. Not the explanations. Not the context.

    Thanks for the apologies by the F way.

    Maybe this lot isn't as bright as I had imagined. Certainly seems not.

    AT LEAST QUIT F SAYING I SUGGEST THE LID WILL POP UP LIKE MAGIC F FAIRIES ARE LIFTING IT!

    That is utter bullcrap. My contention from the beginning was that the weight of the lid would be overcome by increasing pressures and find the quickest path to release its pressure. The lid would TWIST and the ends would at least partially overhang the outside. EXCEPT in the one "sarcophagus" that seems to have a release valve system built into the end. Occams razor would point to those being functional as opposed to decorative. HOWEVER you two cannot even spend 1 minute TO DESCRIBE WHAT THE F YOU THINK WOULD OCCUR TO A GRANITE LID UNDER INCREASING CHEMICAL PRESSURE.

    Instead you obfuscate what I say and what I mean.

    I did say it would HOVER LIKE A HOVERCRAFT. Had I just said hover. You lot would say I was suggesting anti-gravity or whatever bull fits in your brain.

    I STAND BY THAT.. BUT IN CONTEXT.

    When the pressure inside equals or becomes GREATER THAN the gravity weight of the lid. Pressure will be released in the lightest parts of the lid AT FIRST.

    As the pressure GROWS. OVER TIME. DUE TO MORE BOILING... OR YEAST!.. The effect would become more dramatic.

    NO. I DO NOT MEAN THE PRESSURE WILL START ACTING OUT A BLOODY SHAKESPEAREAN PLAY!

    I mean more dramatic inb the sense that the pressurized gas will start to leak out of the container in more areas as pressure grows.

    WHEN THE PRESSURE IS HIGH ENOUGH. The entire lid will effectively be hovering on a cushion of air.

    I AM NOT SUGGESTING ANTI F GRAVITY. PRESSURE CAN LIFT A LID.

    AT THIS POINT YOU CAN PUSH IT. It still is a heavy object so it would take a little push, but it would certainly move with less force than without gas pressure lifting it.

    A HOVERCRAFT WORKS ON SIMILAR PRESSURE. The turbines fill the under section with pressurized air. When that pressure equals enough to compensate for the GRAVITY WEIGHT OF THE HOVERCRAFT (it is not an anti gravity craft btw!) THe HOVERCRAFT WILL START SEEPING SMALL AMOUNTS OF AIR OUT THE SIDES.

    EVENTUALLY; The air pressure will increase further and it will lift. It probably would be too hard to push with your fingers, but it would move simpler than without a cushion of F air. Perhaps a good truck could pull it at this stage.

    NOW.. NOW IT IS FULLY HOVERING (NOT ANTI F GRAVITY BTW! - I have to type that every time or else Dwdry will say Im suggesting PIXIES again).

    Now the lid is "hovering" on a cushion of air. Pretty much entirely. The pressure will escape (NOT LIKE A PRISON MOVIE).. The gas will be released based upon geometry and pressures. The pressurized gas/air/steam will seek lower pressure.

    (WITH ME SO FAR!)

    Now. The lid will HOVER. BRIEFLY!

    I'm going to stop using the word HOVER. The lid will FLOAT ON GAS PRESSURE.

    I NEVER said anything about the lid moving straight left/right, forward/backward along the length and width.

    I think that would be UNLIKELY!

    AS the pressure raises even more the gravity of the floating object will be aimed based upon GEOMETRY, PRESSURES (gravity on lid included).

    Note: The one lid that has the air pressure release areas (if that is what they are for) would likely move less random. I am speaking on the majority of these boxes.

    DWDDYYR! You are so very wrong when you say the balloon experiment above AND below is not the same. Pressure is not constant with a balloon. Did you even go to high school? When the balloon is let loose it goes through the exact same process as the hovercraft but likely quicker do to size and weight. SAME F THING!

    Honestly! This forum has preschoolers.

    I STARTED this lid topic in physics. I dare either of you to state your ignorance's there. I'm guessing this website has at least a few clever folk.

    Now once the lid is floating and chooses a wobbly it will wobble and shake due to pressures and gravity .
    LIKE A BOILING POT WOULD ON A STOVE.

    The lid will choose a direction (not personifying it.. let me rephrase). The lid will begin to float away from its original position.

    AS THE LID STARTS TO SKEW! (This word has confused the entire lot of you)

    skew
    /skyo͞o/1.

    1. neither parallel nor at right angles to a specified or implied line; askew; crooked.
      "his hat looked slightly skew" 2.
    2. MATHEMATICS (of a pair of lines) neither parallel nor intersecting.
    noun1.
    1. an oblique angle; a slant.verb1.
    1. suddenly change direction or position.

    As the lid starts to SKEW. The PRESSURIZED AIR will FIND a QUICKER PATH TO EXHAUST (lower pressure).

    This will be in a corner. A corner will ALWAYS! (most always unless it really is built overly perfect) be exposed before a length and in most cases width along lid.

    AND THEN "Very fast WIND" (cannot say "explosive force" or Dwdydr will have a fit again). EXPLOSIVE FORCE comes out of a gun. All pressure is explosive force if the pressure overcomes the containers strength... but you would have to know "science" for that simple and well known fact.

    A rifle shoots a bullet with explosive force but does not explode itself. Unless you stick your nose in the barrel. (dont try without parental supervision).

    Then an EXPLOSIVE wind will SEEK THE LOW PRESSURE AND FASTEST MOST DIRECT ROUTE. This mean THE CORNER.

    We were discussing 200 KiloPascal of pressure. That could kill a person if they are standing at that corner.

    THE CORNER WOULD BE EXPOSED TO THIS DAILY! Or however many F times they were refueled and cycle time.

    --------------------------------------------------

    You lot do not seem very clever. You have done nothing but put words in my mouth and misstate what I have said time and again. You would prefer strawman (It means you are suggesting I say something different than I have.. and then you counter it with obvious truth. So you do not have to actually think.).

    I have started a thread in physics. Maybe you would like to tell physics why the balloon experiment below has nothing to do with the way this lid floats.

    I'm hoping a more intelligent crown hangs around that forum.

    You can even play with the balloon and crate pathways to easy air pressure by cutting a triangle into a section of the


    I don't know if i can type this any F SLOWER!

    If you cannot grasp this comment then learn some more English!
     
  23. Bob-a-builder Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    122
    Now!

    Instead of being a group of _______! and just moaning about how I am wrong about how a lid would perform under pressure.

    Show me different! (in physics forum).

    I say the corner would likely expose more time than not due to high pressure seeking easiest low pressure.

    You will bitch, and bitch, and moan about how that is incorrect.. But none of you are brave (or smart) enough to say how it would work. ESPECIALLY IN THE PHYSICS SECTION!

    You say my above analogy is wrong. BUT IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY TAKE ON THIS PRESSURE AND LID!

    Despite what dave and dwywydry say.

    I have not pushed aliens or giants. I have always said this makes more sense because IF YOU THROW A QUARTZ ROCK AT THE GROUND IT F GLOWS!

    Watch a video on it if you doubt. I linked one earlier for randy.

    IT MAKES SENSE THEY WOULD TRY TO MAKE IT GLOW MORE.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    Now. This is alternative section. When it was suggested that these were giant pressure cookers. The size, shape, weight, and crystal content made some sense (not that I expect it from you lot).

    I thought someone might get a kick out of it.

    I honestly do not think any of you read my third posting here. Nor do I care.

    I care that you say Im saying a lot of stuff I have not.

    Even BELOW someone just commented.. Let me guess before I look... another strawman... OMFG!












    AS the pressure raises even more the gravity of the floating object will be aimed based upon GEOMETRY, PRESSURES (gravity on lid included).

    Note: The one lid that has the air pressure release areas (if that is what they are for) would likely move less random. I am speaking on the majority of these boxes.

    DWDDYYR! You are so very wrong when you say the balloon experiment above AND below is not the same. Pressure is not constant with a balloon. Did you even go to high school? When the balloon is let loose it goes through the exact same process as the hovercraft but likely quicker do to size and weight. SAME F THING!

    Honestly! This forum has preschoolers.

    I STARTED this lid topic in physics. I dare either of you to state your ignorance's there. I'm guessing this website has at least a few clever folk.

    Now once the lid is floating and chooses a wobbly it will wobble and shake due to pressures and gravity .
    LIKE A BOILING POT WOULD ON A STOVE.

    The lid will choose a direction (not personifying it.. let me rephrase). The lid will begin to float away from its original position.

    AS THE LID STARTS TO SKEW! (This word has confused the entire lot of you)

    skew
    /skyo͞o/1.

    1. neither parallel nor at right angles to a specified or implied line; askew; crooked.
      "his hat looked slightly skew" 2.
    2. MATHEMATICS (of a pair of lines) neither parallel nor intersecting.
    noun1.
    1. an oblique angle; a slant.verb1.
    1. suddenly change direction or position.
    As the lid starts to SKEW. The PRESSURIZED AIR will FIND a QUICKER PATH TO EXHAUST (lower pressure).

    This will be in a corner. A corner will ALWAYS! (most always unless it really is built overly perfect) be exposed before a length and in most cases width along lid.

    AND THEN "Very fast WIND" (cannot say "explosive force" or Dwdydr will have a fit again). EXPLOSIVE FORCE comes out of a gun. All pressure is explosive force if the pressure overcomes the containers strength... but you would have to know "science" for that simple and well known fact.

    A rifle shoots a bullet with explosive force but does not explode itself. Unless you stick your nose in the barrel. (dont try without parental supervision).

    Then an EXPLOSIVE wind will SEEK THE LOW PRESSURE AND FASTEST MOST DIRECT ROUTE. This mean THE CORNER.

    We were discussing 200 KiloPascal of pressure. That could kill a person if they are standing at that corner.

    THE CORNER WOULD BE EXPOSED TO THIS DAILY! Or however many F times they were refueled and cycle time.

    --------------------------------------------------

    You lot do not seem very clever. You have done nothing but put words in my mouth and misstate what I have said time and again. You would prefer strawman (It means you are suggesting I say something different than I have.. and then you counter it with obvious truth. So you do not have to actually think.).

    I have started a thread in physics. Maybe you would like to tell physics why the balloon experiment below has nothing to do with the way this lid floats.

    I'm hoping a more intelligent crown hangs around that forum.

    You can even play with the balloon and crate pathways to easy air pressure by cutting a triangle into a section of the


    I don't know if i can type this any F SLOWER!

    If you cannot grasp this comment then learn some more English!

    EDIT: This last RAINBOW NUTTER is now suggesting I suggest they are moving 70 tons blocks on the regular.!!!

    Hey! Rainbow nutter. These boxes EXIST! They are real. You can fly to Egypt and see them.... Who the hell said anything about making the boxes hover? Are you sane? THEY NEVER HAVE MOVED AND LIKELY NEVER WILL AGAIN... Not since they were shipped in from Aswan you nutjob!

    The NOTION (not mine is that these were pressurized pots. The air pressure would lift the lids. NOT F LOGS! You lot are the dumbest ive met online!
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019

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