Einstein view of time

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Dinosaur, May 6, 2019.

  1. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    Reported. Perhaps it is time to ask the mods to keep you from posting in the science section.
     
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  3. Asexperia Valued Senior Member

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    AGE is the particular time of an animate or inanimate being. For example: the age of the Sun, the age of a person, the age of a certain tree, the age of a city, the age of a car, etc.

    Interview to an unbeliever:

    - Name: John Doe
    - Age: zero (I'm not getting old)
    - Does time exist? : No, It does not.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
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  5. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    If there are any preschoolers on the site that may be new information, for the rest of us I think we already know what age is.
     
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  7. phyti Registered Senior Member

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    SR has removed universal time and replaced it with subjective time. 'Now' is relative to an observer. An event happens once but can have multiple perceptions, since all observers are in different locations. An image of a group of flares on the sun will pass the planets sequentially from Mercury outward to Pluto (no place for political correctness).For a set of detectors, one on each planet, 'now' would occur sequentially in the same order. For any detector once activated, the earlier 'nows' are in its past and the later 'nows' are in its future. Contrary to the nonsensical idea of a 'block universe', the events occur once, but the images of the event disperse throughout the universe for individual perception later. The receding object doesn't disappear at the distant horizon, but its image becomes too small for the resolution of the human eye. The Hubble telescope directed to a black region of the sky shows an enormous number of light sources.
     
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  8. phyti Registered Senior Member

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    James R.#12;
    [Clocks provide a standard of periodic events (ticks) which are used to measure the duration of an event of interest. The clock records the cumulative number of ticks. The duration of an event is then the difference between the ending and starting number.]
    [Your memory compares your current state to previous states, in addition to effects by other biological clocks.]

    [Time exists as a human convention. A simultaneous correspondence of events of interest to a standard event. A personal diary, captains log, police report, court stenographers records, seismograph record, etc.Awareness is after the fact, although the time difference of event vs perception can be insignificant. The awareness of the nova in 2010 does not establish the 'time' of the event 'nova' without knowing the distance the image (pattern of light) traveled. The sequence of nova, event a, and awareness, event b, represents the life cycle of a pulse of photons. In the 1905 paper, par 1, simultaneity, Einstein defines the time of awareness using a 'local' clock with the observer. The coordinate transformations then determine the distant event time, using the stipulation of constant light speed.]
    [Change results from established universal laws that regulate the behavior of physical elements. Change depends on the current state of a system. Plants grow when there is adequate sun and rain. Rain happens when the vapor reaches a cooler air mass. Prediction of events is only possible because the laws are consistent. There is also human intervention which can benefit from these laws or suffer.]
     
  9. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I've thought about this some more and came up with a question about experiencing "now" as it pertains to age "Age" v "Time" .

    If I observe a star for a length of time, say an hour, do I know the age of the star or the time of observation?
     
  10. Asexperia Valued Senior Member

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    In other words, the Sunlight takes a time to reach the different planets. An observer on each planet measures different times of the sunlight, but that is only a duration, they are not now. Different stages of the same phenomenon.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2019
  11. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    You know (have observed) the change which would have occurred from your arbitrary start moment to your arbitrary finish moment and assigned a arbitrary name, say a hour to such event

    Being clever you can calculate how much mass the star lost during your watching period

    Knowing the full mass of the star you can divide that by the amount lost during your hour to give you how many hours the star has left

    From other information about stars in general you can calculate it's starting mass and extrapolate from that at what arbitrary moment it would have appeared

    Using your arbitrary measurement system yes you can calculate its age but your arbitrary start moment does not have a unique time

    TIME does not exist - it is always NOW throughout the Universe

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  12. QuarkHead Remedial Math Student Valued Senior Member

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    So, with your command of logic please tell what your "it" is here
     
  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    NOW is always NOW

    Logically

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  14. QuarkHead Remedial Math Student Valued Senior Member

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    Good gracious! You are a genius!
     
  15. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I agree, but to an observer someones NOW may be in your PAST or your NOW may be in someone else's FUTURE. NOW is a purely subjective experience, a very specific spacetime coordinate.

    AGE does not address that in the abstract. DURATION does. The temporal gap between your NOW and a relative NOW from someone else's frame of reference.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2019
  16. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Congratulations you can reference a dictionary

    Edit

    Apologies

    Early in morning and not fully awake

    That was meant for QH

    Will not insult you in the manner

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  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    I know

    But keep it quiet please

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  18. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Understand your reasoning about duration

    For me I would reason thus (referencing my flight to Bali)
    I leave Darwin airport 11pm
    Flight is 2½ hours duration
    Hence I AGE 2½ hours
    I arrive Bali at midnight
    Darwin is 1½ hours ahead of Bali

    Both Darwin and Bali have aged during the flight as have the plane and myself

    Casting further out so has the Universe

    You would be correct to say the flight has a 2½ hour AGE

    Grammatical though DURATION is more acceptable

    Science speak not same grammatically as you would know from the question frequently put forward

    "Why do people believe in evolution when it is only a theory?"

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  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    OK, when considering every single action itself is subject to ageing, I can agree. There are subtle differences, IMO.

    i.e. the (age) (duration) of polar melting can be measured in decades rather than centuries.

    I'd prefer to use "duration" for such specific instances.
     
  20. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 69 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Even melting ice caps can "take a AGE to melt" and " the last ice age was ages ago"

    Now looks like need together to agree on existence or not of time

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  21. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    I agree Time does not exist as a thing. We both agree all measurements are of an emergent nature. We just have not come to terms semantically......yet.

    I measure emergent duration of an event, you measure emerged age at the end of a an event.......

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  22. Asexperia Valued Senior Member

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    Humanity has been divided in opinion about the existence of time. Does time exist or not? For some, time does not exist because the past and the future do not exist. For others, time exists based on the measurement of time. However both groups have half truth.

    1) Clocks measure time, the continuity of things in the present.
    2) Time does not need the past nor the future to exist.
    3) We use the ideas of the past and the future to organize our lives.

    In conclusion, time exists in a continuous present.
     
  23. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    That is a misleading statement. Time only emerges with the continued existence of an object. No objective existence no associated time. Time itself has no measurable properties.

    Time is the measurement of; past (start) --> duration (existence) --> future (finish)

    The time units we use are wholly arbitrary and invented for human convenience.
     

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