End Times - Psychology. Is it about time to discuss?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Quantum Quack, Dec 3, 2014.

  1. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Possibly this thread will be deemed premature, but I believe that the notions of "End times" as reinforced by climate change and events associated are starting to manifest around the world and is responsible in part as an underlying driver for some of the bizarre and extreme behaviors the world has been seeing in it's population.
    Am I being over sensitive or do others share a similar opinion?

    I will not spoil the objectivity of the discussion about this issue by suggesting examples (of which I believe there are many - some positive but most negative) but shall leave that to others to post as they feel.

    Is it time to open a cathartic discussion on the global and individual psychology of "End Times" and how this can be managed?
     
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  3. origin In a democracy you deserve the leaders you elect. Valued Senior Member

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    Every age has individuals that think they live in the "end times". The googballs preaching 'THE END IS NEAR' are always there. Compared to most of history these are very safe and peaceful times.
     
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  5. zgmc Registered Senior Member

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    The end times hey. We do have some challenges to face, but I don't think its time to throw in the towel.
     
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  7. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Is this in the correct sub-forum? Where is the "science" in this topic?
     
  8. river

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    " MANAGED " ? , interesting
     
  9. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    the climate changes, populations rise and fall, civilizations rise and fall, (sub)species evolve then are replaced by other (sub)species, we are a very small link in a very long chain.
    "end times" is pure nonsense with no small amount of hubris.
     
  10. river

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    It is about time though that we learned from History

    History tells us that hubris , is on the whole , extremely destructive
     
  11. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    "pride goeth before the fall"
    fersure
    those who ignore history are doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over and over again
     
  12. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Agrees!
    End times does not necessarily refer directly to the classic "end of the world" scenarios etc... it can refer to the end of an era, or an ideal ...or even a city.

    An example of one of the many current issues relating to end times psychology:

    "RIO DE JANEIRO (Thomson Reuters Foundation) - São Paulo, Brazil’s drought-hit megacity of 20 million, has about two months of guaranteed water supply remaining as it taps into the second of three emergency reserves, officials say....
    ...
    If rain doesn’t replenish the Cantareira system - the main group of reservoirs that supply São Paulo - the city could run dry, she said."
    29-11-2014

    src: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/29/us-sao-paulo-water-idUSKCN0JD05020141129

    The long term ramifications of the drought and it's effect on the long term sustainability of such a megalopolis and the psychological impact on those persons forced to abandon the city, I believe, relates to the psychology of end times.

    A person who is forced to abandon his home and employment to migrate due to global climate change is going to be feeling very pessimistic towards ideas of a future world. IMO.

    I would also suggest that persons witnessing the events unfold in Sao Paulo over the next 60-80 days, are going to be sharing similar concerns. Certainly I know I am...

    It is the coping with change and the losses associated that can make the difference between survival or not...

    Just thoughts to encourage discussion...



    edit:
    • The global economic cost of unprecedented climate change events, to date, must be utterly staggering.
    • The human cost in terms of life's lost and serious injury is significant and becoming more significant as time progresses.
    Sept - 2012
    "Climate change is already contributing to the deaths of nearly 400,000 people a year and costing the world more than $1.2 trillion, wiping 1.6% annually from global GDP, according to a new study."
    src: http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/sep/26/climate-change-damaging-global-economy

    An "end times" question could be;
    How long can the world afford the cost of climate change events, assuming that the above 2012 figures are close to the mark?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2014
  13. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

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    I think the link to the following article is suited to this discussion. As a species, we are prone to being reactive rather than proactive. What I find interesting is that this article is more than 7 years old, yet it reads as though it were written today, so obviously we have been aware of these problems for a considerable time, yet we are still pretty much in a state of inertia as far as taking action is concerned.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7078857.stm

    "The growth in human population and rising consumption have exceeded the planet's ability to support us, argues John Feeney. In this week's Green Room, he says it is time to ring the alarm bells and take radical action in order to avert unspeakable consequences.

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    We're out of our league, influencing systems we don't understand

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    We humans face two problems of desperate importance. The first is our global ecological plight. The second is our difficulty acknowledging the first."
     
  14. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Absolutely relevant IMO.
    snips from article

    "Despite increasing climate change coverage, environmental writers remain reluctant to discuss the full scope and severity of the global dilemma we've created. Many fear sounding alarmist, but there is an alarm to sound and the time for reticence is over.... "

    "Billions could die. At the very least, we risk our children inheriting a bleak world, empty of the richness of life we take for granted. "
    and I tend to believe through observation, discussion etc that many lay persons or "common folk" are starting to understand what the above snips actually means to them at a personal level.
    The thoughts of end times are starting to manifest in peoples behavior and in their often courageous and determined attempts to avoid severe depression.
     
  15. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    I have long suspected that some people are so full of self loathing that they need to project this illness onto the whole of the species.
    We ain't the problem. We could be the solution.
     
  16. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    A snip from another forum:
    Regarding end times psychology.

    "In my mind there is also no doubt that the ISIL phenomena is an extreme
    manifestation of the "end times" paranoia flooding the global mind set
    due mainly to the fear fueled speculations about climate change.

    ISIL are essentially preparing for Allah/God to make a dramatic entrance and seek to be seen as "his" loyal servants. "Loyal" according to their particular brand of Islam"
     
  17. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Solution to what exactly?
    What are we trying to solve?
    ...dare I suggest that "end times" is what we are trying to avert?
     
  18. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

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    Like any other species, we seek to maximize our options for survival by choosing the path of least resistance and so conserve our personal resources to increase longevity and pursue personal interests. We do not intentionally seek to be harmful, in my opinion, rather the harm comes from our lack of understanding and knowledge of the long term ramifications of even seemingly minor changes to the interconnected habitat which is our planet. Once we have invested considerable time and resources in a course of action, it becomes increasingly difficult to change direction, especially if the short term gain is significant and the long term harm is not immediately apparent or can ostensibly be refuted in debate.

    Though we pride ourselves on being an intelligent and caring species, I would suggest that we are slow to engage until we ourselves are experiencing circumstances that erode our own sense of comfort and security. The developed nations have come this far by outsourcing our needs to other parts of the world that fall under less political legislation and public scrutiny. With the improved technology of communications, we are now able to view this planet from space as well, to gain a perspective never before seen by mankind.

    I should hope that the average resident of planet earth is becoming aware of the rapid changes now underway and the personal challenges that are arising around the globe. Drought, extreme weather, impacts to agriculture and infrastructure are just the beginning of the challenges we can expect. We are a resourceful species and we shall need to apply ourselves individually and collectively to these increasing and sometimes quite unexpected problems.
     
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  19. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    Admittedly, as a species we have managed to royally fuck up components of our ecosystem, our shared coevolutionary biom.
    And, here is the good part:
    We learn from our mistakes!
    And, with each new bit of knowledge, we have more abilities to fix what we broke, and also fix what we didn't break.

    In many ways, we are still children playing with daddy's tools. Even those of us who would and can learn from our mistakes often over correct as we learn(eg: oversteering a vehicle when in a skid on an ice covered road), but, we keep learning and correct for our over corrections.
    Now this is the important part:
    Nobody learns anything while in the midst of panic. Everybody panics one time or another, and when we do, we will invariably go with what has worked in the past, even if it ain't appropriate to the problem at hand---and as the adrenaline pumps, we will do that fast and with much more power than is normally available. If, however, we have already learned from similar situations, and lessons from others, then when we panic, we already have a plan of action, and will carry out that plan without even thinking about it---damned fast.

    One potential problem that may present itself in the near future is the ebb and flow of the current ice age.
    The average interglacial is believed to last about 10,000 years. Coincidentally our current interglacial started about 10,000 years ago. The AGW folks have claimed that we can raise the temperature of the earth by adding greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere. (I take the claims of the agw crowd with a grain of salt because many of the models upon which the claims were bases either ignored or underestimated the effect of the grand solar maximum of the last 1/2 of the last century.)
    For all we know we may be in a superinterglacial which may well last another 10-20 kyrs---there are claims to a 400kyr cycle, and the last superinterglacial (mis 11) was about 400kyrs ago, when it seems that heidelbergensis, proto neanderthalensis, and denisovans were all thriving in western europe, and heidelbergensis were producing giants in south africa after(most likely) generations of natural abundance.
    Let us assume 2 things:
    A) the AGW crowd weren't completely full of shit.
    B) this ain't no super interglacial.
    A) provides us with a tool for combating the return of the glaciers where we currently live. B) indicates that we may soon need the tool A as this interglacial period comes to an end, and the glaciers return.

    Defeatist attitudes as embodied in phrases like "End Times" are worst than as useless as tits on a boar. Having once accepted defeat, we will have nothing to preclude our ultimate defeat.
    (anecdote) I was out mushroom hunting when I encountered a neighbor coming back from her attempt at finding morels.
    She had given up after finding none, accepted defeat, and did not see the morels at her feet. I instructed her in holding back that defeatist attitude and then took her hunting with me, sharing the places where we were most likely to find morels(I was sacrificing the exclusivity of my hunting grounds to improve her attitude). It was early in the season, and we did not come back with 2 bags full, We did however find enough to enhance 2-3 good meals each, and came home happy and fulfilled.

    OK, let's look at another problem. The rapid draining of the ogallala aquifer has been a concern of mine. Meanwhile LA and orange counties in California have been recharging their local aquifers by pumping treated water down into the aquifers. Over 100 rivers and streams flow over the ogallala. We know the problem, we know the solution, now all we need is the will to act.

    We most certainly can be the solution to most of what may befall our shared co-evolutionary biom.
     
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  20. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    Agrees!
    Do you feel that the ability of people to think and plan beyond their deaths is part of the problem?
    It seems to me that the 20th and 21st centuries have seen a huge change in people approach to the long term investment needed for sustainability.

    The reduction in inheritable property, estate etc.

    The existential "me" emphasis and the loss of "collective" foresight accordingly.

    The planned obsolescence, the disposable products and people and the rampant greed for immediate gratification.

    I also believe this could be a part of the subtle psychology of the nihilist, end times, psychology that has crept into the worlds mind set, probably since the start of the industrial age.

    Possibly again it could be associated with the rampant avarice, wealth accumulation and huge consumerism of the individual without due consideration to "What happens after the party"

    and yet caught in the paradox of "having to go on as best we can" whilst simultaneously desperately needing to change to secure a future.

    I think it is unavoidable that the worlds financial stability will eventually fail due to the sheer weight of climate change cost. The worlds stock markets are built on future speculation and that speculation is starting to to show signs of becoming negative IMO.

    If the worlds stock markets can not sustain an optimistic future world view, what happens to the "illusion" of current and future wealth in the world? (and the investment towards such?)
    In other words what I am suggesting is that time is not on our side...and that significant change has the potential manifest incredibly swiftly...

    I also believe that this is a part of the intuitive psychology starting to manifest in the more deliberate decision making of people generally.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2014
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I agree to a point...
    I believe acknowledging our limitations in a realistic fashion is one of the keys we need to find if the world is to survive.

    Limited in what we as humans can do to control our natural environment to suit us with out regard for future consequences.

    "Nature is basically telling us that we really have no control, other than what we can co-operatively gain by working with nature in a symbiotic fashion." ~ anon
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2014
  22. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    bravo to anon
    maybe, we could look at it like training a dog?
    You can not train a dog to do what a dog would not normally do. If, however, you understand a dog's normal behaviours, then you can modify and control those behaviours to suit the task at hand.
    Admittedly, our shared co-evolutionary biom is a tad more complex than your average dog, and therein lies the challenge.
    Are our intellects up for the challenge?
     
  23. scheherazade Northern Horse Whisperer Valued Senior Member

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    These are 'changing times', not that all of history has not been changing times.
    The greater significance of this particular interval is that our species is fast approaching the 'carrying capacity' of the planet and has far surpassed that point if every person on the planet today were to enjoy the upper middle-class life-style of our most developed nations. Regardless of the debate over how much our industry and activity has contributed to the current situation, there should be no doubt that weather patterns have become more erratic and less predictable and the effects on agriculture and infrastructure are undeniable. Essential resources like water and energy are becoming a greater challenge even in the more developed nations. A simple but effective first step, in my simple opinion, is for many of us who are resident in the developed nations, to reassess our own utilization of all resources. From household energy use, to transportation, to nutrition and recreation, we can all learn much from a personal audit of our own needs and desires.
     

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