Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Increan, May 27, 2003.
How long did it take to type this? : "I physically exist, time does not."
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and that has to do with what exactly? Anyways you are getting off the topic.
You can't prove God doesn't exist, it would make my existance easier to understand but u can't prove a negative.
What bugs me is why doesn't god just show himself and end the debate, whats the big secret? If I saw a Gigantic arm come out of the sky and wave at me I'd believe, easy. I believe in my parents because I can interact with them, I don't believe in ghosts because ive never seen/felt one. In my 32 years on earth I have not seen/percieved 1 single thing that defied explination, some people I've met have and thus they believe in whatever they experienced (ufos, gods, angels, e.s.p., pauly shore ... etc.) but I haven't. I can't outright deny the existance of god, aliens or unicorns for that matter. I have enough trouble with things i CAN interact with. If i believed in god just because, the floodgates would open and every theory anyone conceives would also have to be true because they offer me the same evidence .. none.
Listen, we can clear this up right now ... ready? OK uh, Hey God! can i borrow 10 bucks till next week? ... nope no answer AGAIN. Thats the only evidence I've been able to get so far to prove the negative but its more evedence than the believers have offered me.
i just had to reply, it was too good an opportunity.
have a look around u; don't u see anything remarkable?
Don't get me wrong, i look around at the world and gape in breathless awe, its a truely magnificent planet we live on but just because its here and its beautiful it still tells me nothing of a creator or implies one exists. All Im asking for is God to speak up or don't be suprised if his creation dosen't believe in him. I've heard christians speak of their "relationship" with god, these same people also told me they've never heard or seen him, is that a relationship?
I guess im saying aliens, god or bongo the two headed buffalo could have created us for all i know but I have not seen anything that would give one of those choices weight over the other. At least science TRIES to quantify our beginings, religion just says believe it or else.
I think Firingseeds made it perfectly clear in an earlier post...
It's that simple. Hence, "Leap of Faith." There is no proof; the only evidence is AGAINST it's validity. There is only a book which people buy into based on the idea that it has been passed off as true.
Even God said it in the Bible..."Trust not in your logic. Trust only in God."
This is a line that a magician from that era might have said. "Yes, I pulled a rabbit out of my ass...don't believe your logic...believe in me." As the time passed, these people must have realized that no one with half a brain would buy into it, so they wrote these things in the book that would suffocate your mind, and keep the people in line.
No science, which has proven time travel among atoms and plants; discovered the birth of a star; seen planets when they've never left this one; figured out the solar system; built weapons that could kill everyone on the planet; would base belief on one work, one case study. But the Christians do. Why? Becuase it's a nice idea, an intriguing work of literature, and a crutch for those without a path.
Even with the Bible, there is nothing in it that proves God exists. Not a thing. Stories, sure, but if you used those as proof, then I say that the Lord of the Rings really existed. I say that Superfudge was a real kid, too. And Nate the Great was the best pancake-loving 11 year old sleuth in the world.
See how stupid that sounds? All taken on Faith...from works of literature...the same exact thing you base your belief on.
If there occured no concept of god through out the history of mankind (eg. people were for some reason convinced that the universe and all was based purely on accident) would we have proximately the same civilisation now, or would it be completely different?
Re: Re: Here is your proof of existance of god
So how come Physics can't create anything, actually we created physics to understand a phenomena. We could have created another science to understand it. You can use music to explain many things, music is very structural science and art combination discipline, so we could have used music for example to study everything around us. Physics have no artistic abilities, so most of our universe that can only be described artistically lacks description by physics.
What I was trying to say is to proof the oneness of the creator. After combining the forces to get more complex forms, it takes one force at the end to combine them all. That force is god.
faith leads to realization.
ok, lets say faith does lead to realization. Faith in whom?
Every religion ive encountered is based on faith. So lets say, as you did, that this faith lead them to "realization". You end up with what we have today, thousands of seperate groups with everything from slightly differing to completely opposing views on god and faith has given them the SAME certainty in their beliefs you have in yours. Not only that but they each claim to be the only true faith! Since you can't all be right that means faith lead the majority of the planet to the wrong "realization". Now if faith led everyone to the same realization i'd say you had something there but it clearly doesn't.
FAITH, n. An attitude of desperation. An attempt to make the intolerable, tolerable. When achieved, it gives its holders a satisfying feeling of superiority over those so unfortunate as to see things as they are. -The American Heretic's Dictionary
"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." -Richard Dawkins
An acronym for FAITH: Foolish And Ignorant Theological Hogwash
Surely there is great amount of positive energy in faith/believing. If you believe that you can climb a mountain then you probably will climb it. If you do not believe that you won't even attempt it. I you believe in god you believe in good and you will do good. If there is god (and we agreed that chance is 50% to 50%) you are engading in nothing foolish in the contrary you are at the positive side of light, knowledge and optimism.
Quote - "Surely there is great amount of positive energy in faith/believing. If you believe that you can climb a mountain then you probably will climb it. If you do not believe that you won't even attempt it. I you believe in god you believe in good and you will do good. If there is god (and we agreed that chance is 50% to 50%) you are engading in nothing foolish in the contrary you are at the positive side of light, knowledge and optimism."
I grew up in a christian home (actual christians who practiced what they preached) and as a child I was an adament believer.. I remember asking my best friend, "why don't you just believe it! Either there is no god and it doesn't matter or their is and believing in him will save you. you can't lose by believing!" and he said simply, "but i DON'T believe it."
That kinda sums it up for me. If there is nothing to lead you to believe that something is true then how can you believe it? Once i was old enough to realize that fear of hell and not faith was the reason i believed in god my stint as a christian ended.
my wonder about a creator never stopped but now that im "all grown up" i need (like my friend) more than fear to bring me to believe.
There is a big difference between religious faith and having confidence in yourself imo. We agreed on nothing - I think it is foolish to believe something that is only rumored to exist. I also think the concept of god is outmoded, archaic, and about ready for the trash bin.
I have confidence (trust, faith, whatever you want to call it) in myself not some invisible god that is going to judge me one day or an imagined person that is coming to save the day. What I put into life is what I get back and all of it (good and bad) is a learning experience.
Life consists of both positive and negative there is no either or as far as I am concerned. Light is something that illuminates - I have lamps so that is covered. Knowledge is something you seek - If I am curious about something and want to learn more about it I do (both in a school environment and on my own) so that is covered. Optimisim is an attitude you choose to have, it is the way in which you choose to look at the world - I already have that for the most part so that is covered as well. I found it interesting that no mention of wisdom was made. To me, that is more important than knowledge. To quote Hermann Hesse: "Knowledge can be communicated, but not wisdom. One can find it, live it, be fortified by it, do wonders through it, but one cannot communicate and teach it."
HI I'm new, If the world was destroyed by a flood and only Noah and his family were saved,were did all the different races come from. If christ was the son of god,and knew why he was on earth,WHY while on the cross,and dying, he looked to the heavens and said WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME...
It's funny how I like ended the whole debate and people continued.
This is the religion forum...the debate never ends..even god is sick of it by now if he existsPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
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no offence but I think saying you "ended the debate" is a bit, well, premature to say the least. If you could actually end this debate you'd be a very powerful man indeed, like ruler of the universe kinda powerful.
anyway, its a fun philosophical exercise don't you think? I mean isn't that why people come here?
Well you see I posted this thread for people to try and give a reason why god exists without using the bible as evidence and no one has and then the subject kinda changed and thats what I hate about posting something sooner or later the topic gets changed and just kinda drifts away. No one was ab;e to give a good reason, so it kinda ended a while ago.
Ah, yes ive also noticed that tendancy.
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