Entropy contradict Evolution

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Hadeka, Jul 29, 2004.

  1. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    MacM,

    Please explain "nothingness".

    Jan Ardena.
     
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  3. MacM Registered Senior Member

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    Absence of time-space.
     
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  5. b0urgeoisie I am the Bourgeois Registered Senior Member

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    The point is, when pressed, your argument was the same.
    You at some point must also abandon logic and guess at what you don't know. You claim that at some moment nothingness split into two halves. You cannot account for the less than nothing half. But, you use your imaginary anti-universe to explain the universe.
    If I had to guess I would say you learned a neat formula in your 7th grade pre-algebra class last week. Now you are taking your big, new, sexy formula and sticking it in every hole to see where it fits.
     
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  7. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Absent from what?

    Jan Ardena.
     
  8. MacM Registered Senior Member

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    To the contrary. One should never abandon common sense and simply guess. That is to become religious and function on blind faith, not only in absence of evidence but in opposition to evidence AND logic. Not that we can resolve all issue via logic. But such issues are not resolved by mere blind faith absent common sense.


    This doesn't make sense. What is not accounted for. Did you read Dr Tyron work? The "Net Energy in the observable universe = 0". It is +/- energy flow. It is all accounted for.


    I don't have or visualize and anti-verse. That is your misconstrued understanding of the meaning of +/- energy.

    LOL. Your guess would be grossly in error on several fronts. The fact is I fabricated the formula to explain "Creation Ex Nihilo" , which just happens to provide a logical solution to our origin and all without magic, miracles or Gods.

    BTW: Please explain how you find magic, miracles and Gods resolve anything?
     
  9. MacM Registered Senior Member

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    10,104
    Absence of "time-space" means "absence of "time-space". There is no "Absent from what"?

    If you can't envision the meaning it would be difficult to further expound on something so simple.

    However, we might try and see if you can tell us what exists when time-space is absent.

    Your simplified answer should be "Nothing". If you have some other answer it would be interesting to see you justify it.
     
  10. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

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    The whole theory of Evolution is a propaganda.

    Here is a video link that proves Evolution wrong. The video is about 1 hour and 1 min. So watch it if you have time. Or watch some of it, then watch some of it later.
    The interesting point about this video is that Carles Darwin, author of the theory, himself shows us the difficulties of the theory. This is a very intersting video.

    This is a stream link. Thus meaning you DON'T have to download the movie. It just plays.

    You need Real Player to view the video

    http://66.98.204.66/download/f4c0c05e0c379132de95665ef11bfedb/collapse_of_darwinism_full.mpg
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2004
  11. Lemming3k Insanity Gone Mad Registered Senior Member

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    You expected the theory to be easy and infallable back in the time he was alive?
     
  12. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

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    3,089
    No, that is not my point. My point is that Charles Darwin knew things that would shatter his Theory. This was written in his book "Origin of Species".

    Now days the things he feared would shatter his theory have been proven. That is why I want you to see the video.

    You will get my point when you see the video.

    If you really believe that Evolution is accurate, then you shouldn't be afraid of watching the video.

    I hope you see the video, that is the only thing I can do, that is hope for you to turn to the right path.
     
  13. Lemming3k Insanity Gone Mad Registered Senior Member

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    You expect opinions to change on the basis of one video from a bias source? When there is other evidence supporting evolution, and other scientist follow ups who have more knowledge at their fingertips than any scientist has ever had.
    Things that would shatter his theory include: DNA evidence we are more related to a creature other than apes, this then creates a new theory, the earth not being as old as it needs to be for evolution to work, but we already know the age of the earth(roughly), even if he faked everything we have other evidence that he was right, we are similar to apes.
    By the way the video is very bias, it claims theres a plan and creator with no evidence other than nature, i'd say the propaganda is that video not evolution, theres nothing in it that disproves a thing.
     
  14. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

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    We are similar to apes. You're right!! Oh my God, we are similar to apes. Similarity doesn't mean Evolution. The video showed that Mutation is BS. That Natural Selection removes the weak, doesn't have any power to Evolve.

    Yes the video was from a Muslim person. But it showed you what the Evolutionist did to prove the theory, which have all been refuted, or disaproved.

    The video wasn't biased. Because it showed you what the Evolutionist has provided as evidence.

    The video also showed refutation to the evidence. If you believe that providing refution is being biased, then I am sorry for your narrow minded thinking.

    I still have my belief that Evolution is the BIGGEST BULLSHIT IN THE WORLD.

    There is no scientific proof to prove Evolution. Similarity between us and apes), doesn't prove the process of EVOLUTION!
     
  15. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    13,968
    MacM,

    You're talking non-sense. If you are absent you have to be absent (not present) from something or someone.

    You mean you don't want discuss it, because you're talking non-sense.

    I'm sorry that tired old diversion trick is not going to work on me. You brought it up, you explain it.

    The simplified answer would be "the thing that they are absent from".
    To say "nothing", begs the question; "how could time-space just appear?"
    Can you answer that?

    Jan Ardena.
     
  16. MacM Registered Senior Member

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    10,104
    You are showing your lack of understanding of meanings of words and your attack is hollow.

    WEBSTER: ABSENCE : (3) - The fact of being without; lack {in the absence of evidence}

    Try again. I think we can see where the weak link is in this discussion.

    Talk about diversion and ego. You want to start an arguement over what "Nothingness" is.

    I gave you an example "Absence of time-space". Now if you disagree - YOU explain what exists in the absence of time-space. "Nothingness".

    If you disagree then give an example of what exists without time-space otherwise get off your high horse.

    I don't have to but I have given an example which does not violate conservation. If you have a better one then give it but don't ignore what I said.

    N----->(+s)+(-s) and the fact that calculations show that there is "Zero Net Energy" in the universe. It is comprised of and exists due to flow of + ----> - energy. See Dr Tyron's work which I also referenced. If you think you have the whomph to show him wrong then have at it otherwise end of arguement.
     
  17. BobG Registered Senior Member

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    162
    Mutations have been observed in laboratories.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2004
  18. Lemming3k Insanity Gone Mad Registered Senior Member

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    Natural selection does remove the weak, it also removes weak or unnecessary traits from a creature gradually over a long period of time, we arnt just similar to apes they are our closest relatives and share a huge proportion of DNA structure with us.
    If your suggestion is its bullshit because bad traits emerge to then that is the opposite of the species being improved, occasionally a mutation in a gene will occur which causes a bad trait, a weakness, like an allergy in humans, nothing is perfect and even the weak breed so its difficult to erase all imperfections.
    They have yet to be disproved, research on evolution is continuing all the time and archaeologists are continually looking for missing links in the chain between us and apes, there are many tree diagrams that show our evolution over millions of years.
    You'd do well to learn this, refutations are not bias, but the source can be, and when it starts with things like 'clearly this needs a creator' then it becomes obvious it is formed on a mere opinion.
    Good for you, you believe what you want, but dont be surprised if few people agree and dont be arragont enough to assume your right and everyone else must be narrowminded.
    Theres plenty, if you live in england i suggest a visit to the natural history museum, if not your local one should do, but remember what i told you about the possibility sources might be bias.
    You can trace things back to a time when we were the same creature, THAT is what proves evolution.
     
  19. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

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    3,089
    I'm surprised.

    Natural Selection-removes the weak. I agree. But there is no evolutionary mechanism involved.

    Mutation-no known action of mutation of 1 animal into a completely distinct animal. I was surprised that you didn't see the reaction of the Evolutionist who was asked this question. Mutation only disrupts the structure of the DNA doesn't change the animal or add any genetical material.

    Both of the basic fundementals of Evolution have no proof.

    If there is proof that Natural Selection makes things evolve. Please provide it to me. For I am very much interested.

    If there is any proof that Mutation results in a completely distinct animal, then please provide me the evidence, for I am very much interested.
    Because Mutation only makes "freaks of nature", like that cow in the video.

    All of those skulls that were produced as evidence were dismissed. Give me proof that Humans evolved from Apes. Don't give me DNA and other similarity bullshit. I want actual proof of the process EVOLUTION.

    And one more thing. Evolution proposes that things evolved from "simple" to "complex" forms.

    Humans are the last product of Evolution so far. Right?
    Then why do bee's have complex "eyes" then us?
    Cambrians had the same eye structures as bee found today.

    How the hell did the eye survive, and not the actual specie.

    Their eyes are more "complex" than ours. Even though we evolved after them. Right? BULLSHIT.

    Even the concept of evolution from "simple to complex" is BULLSHIT.
     
  20. BobG Registered Senior Member

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    There is no last product of evolution. Those with beneficial traits will be more likely to survive and pass these traits to their offspring who in turn will have a greater chance of survival. Its is not a straight line. Natural selection does not make things evolve it is the process by which those most adapted to their environment survive.

    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB910.html gives examples of a new species which would just be a cumilation of mutations.

    Examples of skulls http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html
     
  21. 786 Searching for Truth Valued Senior Member

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    3,089
    Ok dude, listen to me.

    Natural Selection- Only eliminates the weak, and disabled, and those who are unfit for the enviorment. There is no EVOLUTIONARY MECHANISM involved for them to evolve.

    Mutation only disrupts the DNA structure. You never get any new species from them. Mutation is most commonly known as 1 animal mutated into another animal. But that is not the case. There is no evolutionary mechanism in this world that can evolve you. We are not like POKEMON or DIGIMON. We are the real thing. Mutation DOESN'T add any NEW GENETICAL MATERIAL for something or someone to aquire NEW organs or change the shape or anything else.

    For example. There are many genetical problems. Like one could have XXY chromosome. This is only a defect but that doesn't change them. They are still HUMANS they DIDN'T evolve.

    Another example is that Nuclear radiation can damage the DNA. But in result you get a "freak of nature" not a DISTINCT animal.

    Mutation only harms an animal, it doesn't create a whole new being.

    Even the BASIC fundementals of the Theory of Evolution don't have any support. It's all completely BULLSHIT. It is the BIGGEST SCIENTIFIC PROPOGANDA in this world.

    And about those skulls that you mentioned they have all been dismissed as scientific evidence to support the Theory of Evolution.

    I recommend you watch this video. It talks about Natural Selectoin, Mutation, and the Fossil record. It also talks about thos SKULLS you are talking about.

    Here is the link to the video.
    http://66.98.204.66/download/f4c0c05e0c379132de95665ef11bfedb/collapse_of_darwinism_full.mpg
     
  22. DeeCee Valued Senior Member

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    1,793
    Ok dude, listen to me.

    Err must I?

    Natural Selection- Only eliminates the weak, and disabled, and those who are unfit for the enviorment. There is no EVOLUTIONARY MECHANISM involved for them to evolve.

    So if the weak fall by the wayside and fail to evolve who does that leave to take over the planet? Oh! I guess it must be those organisms best adapted to their enviroment.
    That's evolution in action that is!

    Mutation DOESN'T add any NEW GENETICAL MATERIAL for something or someone to aquire NEW organs or change the shape or anything else.

    Too true.
    A single mutation usually means nothing at all!

    Oops.
    I think I've just spoiled much of your argument, sorry.

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    Dee Cee
     
  23. MacM Registered Senior Member

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    10,104
    This is a two way street. So listen to us as well. Don't be so cock sure of yourself for it damn sure isn't justified.


    You seem to have a total lack of understanding of mutation and DNA. Be it by accident, chance or whatever, man now routinely changes (mutates by will) the DNA chain as is already producing modified creatures and crops.

    To suggest that such changes not only have not happened by chance over millions of years but cannot change creatures, is simply to ignore where science actually is today.

    True but what your response fails to recognize is that it creates a animal with slighly different, trates, characteristics, etc and subsequent chance changes in its offspring make further changes.

    Big words but no actual worth to them. The greatest propaganda is the arguement of an Allah (or any God). They repeatedly show a disjunctive chain of change - i.e. from a fish to a mammal, etc and do not show the millions of slow changes which have been found presenting a very good record of transition.

    Are there gaps? You bet. Are there still questions? You bet. Is Allah or Gods the answer - No damn way.

    OK. I watched. Would you like a frank opinion? Probably not but since you seem to like to give yours I'll give mine.

    Interesting film. A lot of good facts. Nice photographry. Unfortunately it is FILLED with propaganda and basless assumptions and deliberate distortions of the true results of scientific study.

    To illustrate my point. You begin by saying it is fact and proven, etc and that it is not a biased program. What a crock of crap. Are you blind or simply brain dead?

    Within the first 5 minutes.

    1 - It asserts proof that the universe and life are the work of a "Plan", a "Design" by an all powerful Creator and that that creator is Allah. No such proof is ever given in the entire film, much less the first 5 minutes.

    2 - It distorts learning and change as being refutation of science and proof of God and not as normal progress in our learning and understandings.

    3 - It starts within the first 5 minutes by making a senseless character assination of Darwin. It mentions that Karl Marx admired Darwin and dedicated a book to him and wrote that he admired Darwin.

    What the hell does that have to do with Darwins Theory? I see nothing saying that Darwin admired Karl Marx. If it did I might have a different opinion of Darwin but that still would have absolutely no bearing on Darwins Theory.

    It is propaganda of the worst kind pure and simple - Character assination, not even by association but by innuendo. Arrrggghhhh!

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    You believe what the hell you choose. It is your perogative. I choose to believe we came from apes. Not because Darwin says so or that we have compiled a complete record of transistions but because it beats the hell out of believing in Allah or any God.

    Because while Miller in 1953 may not have created man from inorganic material he did indeed create organic material from inorganic material. Because amino acids and such building blocks of life have been found in great clouds thoughout the universe. Because inspite of the distortion of the record and capitalizing on a few errors along the way there is far more evidence for evolution (by whatever means) than for anyother process. Because any rational consideration of the magnitude of the universe and our current findings suggest that the universe is in fact filled with life and that life on puny earth is not special but that life is a chemical process - a natural one.

    I know these words are falling on deaf ears and hence don't be disappointed when I choose to not participate further in this debate. Can I be wrong. You
    bet but if I am and your are right guess what. I'll stand before your Allah or any God and say "kiss my ass". I don't want you and I don't need you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2004

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