Epicurean Riddle

Discussion in 'Religion' started by allisone417, Nov 22, 2005.

  1. allisone417 i'll be in my room Registered Senior Member

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    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

    What do you all think about this?
    Airtight, flaws?

    Sorry if this topic was discussed before...i didnt see it anywhere.
     
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  3. Facial Valued Senior Member

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    It is acceptable and humorous, imo.

    While this underlines the fundamental problems with religious belief and radical worshippers of the Pink Unicorn, it shouldn't be used as an argument to disregard spirituality as a whole.
     
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  5. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    He could be able, but not willing to prevent evil and still not be malevolent, because the end goal may require experiencing evil (kind of like what doesn't kill us makes us stronger).
     
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  7. apendrapew Oral defecator Registered Senior Member

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    Couldn't God make the end goal not require experiencing evil?

    If not, then he is not omnipotent.
     
  8. apendrapew Oral defecator Registered Senior Member

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    Wait -- doesn't Epicurus have something to do with Hedonism?
     
  9. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe He is omnipotent, and feels that experiencing or dealing with evil is inseparable to being human, like going through boot camp is inseparable to being a soldier. In other words, He can let evil happen without being malevolent (He did let Jesus get tortured and murdered, didn't he?). This is the flaw in the riddle.

    As to omnipotence, should God be able to make a square circle or atoms out of marshmallows?
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2005
  10. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    Epicurus believed that the greatest good was to seek modest pleasures in order to attain a state of tranquility and freedom from fear through knowledge (ataraxia) as well as absence of pain (aponia). The combination of these two states is supposed to constitute happiness in its highest form. Although some equate Epicureanism with hedonism or a form of it (as "hedonism" is commonly understood), professional philosophers of Epicureanism deny that.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurean
     
  11. apendrapew Oral defecator Registered Senior Member

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    In my opinion, omnipotence means omnipotence.

    There is absolutely end to your power, meaning that the laws of logic and physics do not apply to you (unless you want them to, which is a paradox). Realities you create wouldn't have to make any sense (in the way we know them to).

    If he is omnipotent, then yes.

    Otherwise, could it really be called omnipotence?
     
  12. Roman Banned Banned

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    Well there you go. It doesn't have to make sense.
     
  13. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    He could have unlimited power, and avoid certain actions due to His own code of Omnipotent ethics, the same way He tries to restrict our own actions.
     
  14. apendrapew Oral defecator Registered Senior Member

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    Yup, he could do that. Why he would is beyond me though, especially since he doesn't need a code of Omnipotent ethics.

    That would be like driving a car to work everyday even if you had a spacecraft.
     
  15. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    If you had everything, wouldn't you get bored after a while, and start to play games? ...hide things or knowledge from yourself so you could be surprised?
     
  16. apendrapew Oral defecator Registered Senior Member

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    Let me know if I understand this right.

    You think we experience evil because God, a perfect entity, gets bored and needs entertainment? If so, I'd have to say that's pretty pessimistic.
     
  17. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    No, I'm saying that's why He doesn't break His own rules of logic, for instance, creating an instant utopia for every living thing. Maybe he needs to see the process. Like it can be less rewarding buying a toy car than making your own model of one.
     
  18. apendrapew Oral defecator Registered Senior Member

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    Why would a perfect entity need anything?
     
  19. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    He needs something to do.
     
  20. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    I like to think of/imagine god as a little kid playing a violent video game ....and the Earth and it's inhabitants are his way of keeping score!

    Baron Max
     
  21. spidergoat Valued Senior Member

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    If beings have eternal souls, then violence isn't such a bad thing. Then death really isn't death. Evil isn't so bad, because there would be perfect justice. Evil is only bad from a limited point of view, in the end, it's worse for those who do evil.

    I mean, that's not my opinion, but it seems to be an implication of the whole God idea.

    What could be more violent than a collision between two galaxies? And our galaxy was theoretically the result of one such collision. Was that evil? Creation and destruction are fundamentally the same.
     
  22. cato less hate, more science Registered Senior Member

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    if a god is omnipotent, then it has all experiences and knowledge that can possibly be obtained. there is no reason for a god to create us. religion has no logic or reason at its base, if you argue with someone about religion long enough you always end at the same point *god does not need to make sense, god is god*. that is what I hate about religions, they throw logic out the window, and ask you to believe a small minority of eccentric, delusional, or power hungry people. that is the perfect recipe for disaster.
     
  23. apendrapew Oral defecator Registered Senior Member

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    That doesn't actually answer the question. *hint: a perfect entity wouldn't need anything. There is no way around it.

    Thus it's really too bad that there is no evidence whatsoever that souls exist. (Unless you're speaking of souls in reference to personality, in which case it would die the moment the person died)
     

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