equal rights to being punched in the face

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by angrybellsprout, Jan 19, 2008.

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  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Why don't you get yourself an aboriginal girlfriend, and go and live in one of the paradise aboriginal communities that all get these "special privileges" you're so upset about?

    I've been wondering for some time how much contact you have had with women. There must be some reason for your misogyny. I'm guessing you've been rejected too much for your liking. It fits with your need to be the victim, though.

    You've parroted off some studies hosted by "men's rights" groups, in the same way that you parrot off studies hosted on white supremacist websites. Part of growing as a person is being able to look at both sides of an argument dispassionately, rather than ignoring any evidence that goes against your preconceptions and prejudices.

    I don't.

    You and ABS don't seem to be worried by any ancient code of chivalry. You're arguing, after all, that you ought to be able to hit a woman in the face, are you not?

    And the majority of perpetrators of violence are male. Your attempt to dishonestly conflate separate issues is transparent.

    And yet, strangely, every night on the news I see stories of arrests and prosecutions for assaults committed on men.

    You seem to want a return to the past, where white males had unquestioned authority and dominance in society. Why would that be, I wonder. Could it be because you consider yourself a victim and you feel you deserve more power and prestige? Is that why you're so keen to join the racists and sexists?

    I'd want to know why whites are being singled out.

    Which western countries?

    Many people don't understand what domestic violence is. An ad campaign needs to be as specific as possible, within its 30 second timeslot, or the message risks getting lost.

    It sounds like what is needed here is not an ad campaign or news laws, but better police training.

    No, I don't think the campaign was a political ploy. And I don't think it would have swung any votes at all.

    Because almost invariably, those who say that are either misogynists, or else have no real understanding of what feminism is.

    Being pro-women, by the way, need not mean being anti-men. It isn't a question of arguing about which sex is "better".

    Most feminists support equal rights.

    Bars are businesses. Obviously, some have decided that they get too many men and not enough women if they accept everybody in. They decide what mix of men and women they want. And the customers agree to that. If they did not, they would not frequent those bars any more and the bars would go out of business.

    It's just sour grapes to complain about being rejected by a bar. If they reject you, and you think you're better than that, do you beg and scrape to them to let you in, or do you just never go to that bar again and tell all your friends not to go there either? I know what I do. If you disagree with the way they run their establishment, don't go there. Enough people make the same decision and they go out of business. Simple.

    If they paid for a service which was then denied, they are legally entitled to a full refund. That is very different from being rejected by the door chick at that trendy bar you're desperate to get into.
     
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  3. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    actually james it seems that you have no idea what australian law means

    You do realise that feminist groups brought an action against the Melbourne club because it catered exculisvly to men dont you?

    Bussness, clubs, sociaties ect No group is above the anti descrimination laws. Even the fedral goverment had problems with the antidescrimination act when it passed its intervention laws (it had to make them excempt from the racial descrimiation act)

    Everyone is intiltled to be free from discrimination based on race, GENDER, ect ect
    I have no problem with most feminsts as people, i have a problem with the organisation. As i said some goverment sponsored womens groups were quite surportive of similar groups looking at the issues from a mens perspective. This is very good

    As for Howard i will have to dissagree with you, everything he did was for political advantage. Not saying that all members of his goverment were the same as him but even when he was tresure he was the same. just look at the argument he had with fraser on the vetnamise boat people.

    oh and i dont even concider myself pro-women or pro-man, i dont concider myself pro-white or pro-black, or pro-straight or pro-gay

    I am PRO human rights. Thats it, and END to ALL discrimination no matter what. is that so horrible?

    Oh and james as for what bell said it goes much futher than retraining police although i agree with you there. Whats the point if no one will report it?

    I cant even give you figures on the number of cases of domestic vilonce and abuse aginst men. Not because it doesnt happen but because its not reported. Same thing goes for sexual assult

    how would you suggest the goverment tackle that issue?
    by making a vilonce against men?
    no the orgional campain should NEVER have been gender biased at all

    As to the countries as i said i cant rember where it was (was quite honest about that and im sure the laws MUST have been changed, at least i hope so)

    Oh and i know you havent ONCE mentioned the fact that the drug to treat prostate cancer has only being on the PBS for breast cancer
     
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  5. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    You really should stop guessing. It doesn't seem to be doing you—or your argument—any good.
     
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  7. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    I am the one talking about equal rights, while your posts have been nothing but attempts to promote sexism. Thus what else am I supposed to guess other than you seem to think that women have a right to use violence against men while that men are held to a double standard?

    Why don't you go and stand up against double standards that apply to violence in society?

    Why don't you go out and stand up against discrimination faced by males in the teaching profession, especially at the elementry school level?

    Why don't you go out and stand up against women who view marriage and/or children as nothing more than a way to steal money from a man?

    Liberals in general hate the concept of equal rights.
     
  8. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    ABS have you ever lernt how to debate?

    You need to stop posting flipant repies and start concidering what you want to say
    Passion is great but people arnt going to bother fencing with you if you cant temper your passion with logic.

    Sit down and write your first passionate reply but DONT hit the send button.
    Then think for a second and retype it into a form that people can understand

    And try backing up your argument with examples every so often. The web is a great sorce for infomation to defend ANYTHING

    Try to use unbias sorces because they will be harder for the otherside to disregard. If you find something mentioned like the study from melb uni copy it into google and try and find the origional sorce. Universities are great, so are orgnisations like the CSIRO, WHO, Red cross, Amnesty International, the UN, International comission on human rights. Even some of the law sociaties have great infomation on ethics, for example the Queensland Law Council. Parlimentry Papers are GREAT and so are ABS statistics.
     
  9. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    You don't need sources to back up common knowledge, which is what I've been sticking to.

    Though you could look into the VAWA that I brought up on the first page for some good eaxmples of sexism in the US Congress.
     
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Evolve or get left behind

    Interesting assertion. You ought to try to make a real argument out of it.

    Oh, I don't know. Maybe something connected to reality?

    Because I don't view them as being so severely problematic. Nothing in this world is perfect, and if my standards should reflect the most simplistic assertions of self-interest, very little will ever get better.

    There are issues that take priority, such as the violence itself. Whatever histrionic assertions of imbalance you might come up with would better be addressed when the larger, real problem is better understood.

    Because I don't view it as being so important compared to other issues. Normally I would simply point out that those issues of "discrimination" pertain to—are, in fact, symptomatic of—other problems in society, and rather than simply rushing to salve the symptoms in order to assuage your feelings of inadequacy, it would be better to attempt a broader address of the larger malady. Perhaps this hasn't occurred to you. Or perhaps it seems too difficult a proposition to comprehend. Whatever the case, I'm rarely surprised by the coincidence of petty solutions and the prominence of simplistic self-interest.

    Wow. You're really fixated on that, aren't you?

    If it's so important to you, give history some consideration. See if you can figure out something about where those attitudes you perceive actually come from.

    In the meantime, I can only feel so much sympathy toward those stupid prigs who actually marry those women.

    Shallow, self-centered, manipulative bullshit is a human malady. It's not restricted to one sex or the other. Dealing with the disease—e.g. fundamental dishonesty among people and its causes—is a far more promising route than complaining about symptoms described under the influence of the disease.

    As long as that concept of "equal rights" involves the preservation of traditional bigotry and injustice, yes, liberals will scoff at such ludicrous propositions.

    I'm not especially inclined to consider credible erroneous assertions that reflect immediate and puerile self-interest. You should give that point some thought. Any two-bit moron can propose an idiotic conundrum tailored to reflect his vanity. Rise above savage greed and barbaric lust.
     
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,882
    Mod Hat - Intellectual sloth

    Mod Hat - Intellectual sloth

    This is Sciforums. You might be amazed to find out what people have expected to pass for "common knowledge" over time. And if you're not amazed, then you really ought to know better that to keep up with the slovenly excuse for argument you've been pushing lately.

    Certain common knowledge is obvious. However, you're not operating within that range. Intellectual sloth is not well-received here. Get on the trolley.

    Easy enough?

    Good.
     
  12. C1ay Skepticist Registered Senior Member

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    162
    It is common sense that two wrongs do not make a right. You cannot justify the violation of someone else's rights just because they violated your rights.

    If someone slaps you for example, it does not mean you have a right to slap them back. You have a right to bring charges against them, nothing more, nothing less. They have a right to have their side heard by a jury of their peers, nothing more, nothing less. There is no double standard here.
     
  13. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    Ah but of course, the punishment for a man striking a women is exactly the same as the punishment for a woman striking a man...
     
  14. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I have to ask,
    Which one of you men got your ass kicked by a woman and the law did nothing??
     
  15. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    This coming from the sexist that encourages violence against men for being called a foul name?
     
  16. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    So you say its unfair, yet you have no personal experience that it was unfair? You have never been hit by a woman, called the law, and nothing was done?
     
  17. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    Anything to defend sexism right?

    Afterall, it was you that suggested that violence be used against men because they called you a foul name, so if you cared at all for equality, then you'd be glad to be kicked in the face a few times anytime you call a man a foul name.
     
  18. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    25,817
    so then you haven't been discriminated against, you're just getting ready in case you ever are???:shrug:
     
  19. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    Um...I think she was messing. Try not being so ASD.
     
  20. C1ay Skepticist Registered Senior Member

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    162

    Ahh, yes it is. If the law was written as gender specific it would not be Constitutional. It has something to do with that whole "equal protection under the law" thing....
     
  21. angrybellsprout paultard since 2002 Registered Senior Member

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    There are plenty of sexists who do take the position that violence against men shouldn't just be tolerated, but encouraged. They will laugh and talk about how you should kick men in the groin, but if you dare suggest that they should get a cunt punch in return, you're sexist.

    They revel in the fact that the law isn't applied equally in the courts or by the police, and hide behind this to justify their violence.
     
  22. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    25,817
    who is 'they'? Have you had run-ins with them? Or are you just getting riled up in preparation for run-ins with them?

    And do you have a link to a web site or an article where 'they' advocate and encourage violence against men?

    And when was the last time you were close enough to a women to give her a 'cunt punch'?
     
  23. C1ay Skepticist Registered Senior Member

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    162

    I'll bet you can't support that claim with evidence...
     
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