Equality in pay and conditions and feminism

bells what im suggesting is that the reason there is a difference in pay is either a) because they are doing different jobs or b) because they are working for different companies.

You show me ONE enterprise agreement where the pay rates are different between men and women, they dont exist, they are illegal. Honestly find me one where for the same number of hours in exactly the same job with the same conditions it has gender discrimitory pay. Oh and not one of those stupid work place agreements BTW because i NEVER surported howard and i voted against those laws at every chance i got (and i protested against them as well).

I wasnt making up the story about there being a surposed difference in the rate of pay for interns in the SA ambulance service. Yet i have READ there agreement, it goes on clinical skill and years of service, nothing else at all. So how could i possably belive that its anything other than women CHOSING not to do as much overtime which is there choice.

I would like you to tell me how exactly i said that women truck drivers working in the mines shouldnt be paid the same. If women are willing to work that good on them, i said that im tired of being given manipulated statistics which try to compare things like what men are surposedly earning in mining to what women are surposedly earning in teaching. I do not like being manipulated and i still havent seen feminsts complaining about how bad it is that women are not equally represented in the work place injuries and death statistics. Oh and before anyone suggests that the discrepancy is due to the wars we are currently in and that women are not alowed to serve on the front line (something i disagree with i might add) there have been 9 deaths since the start of the war and that 700 is static every year aprently

 

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oh bells on the glass celling, we currently have a female chief justice of the high court (I think), a female GG and a female deputy PM (probably the next PM). How much longer can people honestly complain about the glass celling before they look foolish?

 

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Feminism war needs glass ceilings, great stereotypes.

 

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Um, what? Asguard said nothing of the sort. What he did assert was that men tend to gravitate to the more dangerous/labourous high paying jobs.

Men also have a tendency to clock up more hours at work than women. So it's no wonder the wage gap exists.

Nonsense. The 'glass ceiling' is a myth.

 

Don't forget all the female doctors, the predominance of women in pharmacy, and the little fact that Bells was a fucking lawyer.

 

I am angry that when I wait tables at "Hooter's" I make less than the women. I mean, I wear the same uniform and everything.

As an electrician, the women that were willing to get dirty got alot of respect. The one who cried because she broke her painted nail while pretending to work... She got treated just like a guy doing that would have. Being union, the money was all the same.

 

All people are not equal, nor are they equally competent in the same job ...gender being only one of the issues involved.

Baron Max

 

We can then say that ugly people earn less as well.

 

Yes, and taller, slim people earn more and are promoted more than short, fat people.

Laws try to make people equal when it's perfectly obvious that people are not equal.

The next step in the equality laws will be to blind managers so they can't see who they're promoting or hiring!
When that don't work, they'll have the managers' hand cut off so they can't feel the applicatants.
When that doesn't fully work, they'll make the managers deaf so they can't hear the applicants.
And when that don't work, the government will do all the hiring for the managers and force them to accept the applicants.

Baron Max

 

So you're a woman who has been affected by the glass ceiling?????

So the views of a few women is to be taken as reliable evidence for conditions of society as a whole?

Baron Max

 

SO much truth to this statement.



Either way, there will always be a wage gap because there still are jobs with different pays specific to both genders.

I mean, what are the odds that the average income of all men and average income of all women is completely the same anyways? There will always be a difference.

If the income for women eventually becomes higher for women, will feminists start bitching about equality for men? I highly doubt it.

 

LOL. A 'troll' like Baron Max just wiped the floor with you, a supposed intellectual. Beautiful!

 

That makes me a socialist, then.

We need doctors, sure, but we also need the likes of store clerks for daily life to operate.

As for the OP: Men and women both get discriminated against depending on the situation.

I'm against both of these, as I think any reasonable person would be.

A woman has every right, for example, to join the military if she's fit for that job, and a man has every right to be a primary school teacher if he is fit for that job.

 

ok james, lets look at this objectivly. All 3 lectures i have this year are female, 3 of the top 4 jobs in the public service are female, bells is a lawyer, my partner is on the line for management in a company which has 4/5 of its managers being female, my mother is a manager as is both her principle AND the district manager for her school. Need i go on?

 

oh not to mention that my mother in law just got offered a job worth $140,000 with the recuritment company BEGGING her to come and work for them (she didnt take it because it would mean moving to darwin but thats her choice).

 

Wait, they're just comparing the average starting salaries, without equalizing for what jobs they are doing? That's pretty much meaningless...

Not that there aren't real issues with gender equality and pay out there, but it doesn't help to throw out baloney statistics and claim that they represent sexism.

I'm reminded of a classic story that statistics profs like to tell. The story goes that UC Berkeley did a servey of admissions rates to graduate school for men and women, and found that women were being admitted at a much lower rate. This alarmed them, and they were concerned that sexism was influencing the admissions process. So, they decided to have a witch hunt and find the offending departments. But when they broke down the admissions statistics for each department, they were surprised to find that none of them showed any notable difference in admissions rates for men and women. The answer, it turned out, was that men were mostly applying to big, well-funded programs like science and engineering, which can accept lots of students and so have relatively high admissions rates. Women, on the other hand, were mostly applying to liberal arts and humanities programs, which are much smaller and poorer, and so have very low admissions rates. And so even though each admissions decision was made in an unbiased way, the final result is that men are admitted at a much higher rate.

The point is that while people should be entitled to equal pay for equal work, it isn't necessarily the case that everyone is equally motivated to do the same work, and so we should not expect absolutely equal pay to result from a just system. We certainly should never accuse anyone of sexism on the basis of a discrepency in pay, without first accounting for any discrepencies in career choices.

 

What exactly is liberal arts?

 

The simple reply to that is that men and women should be equally represented everywhere if we were a truly egalitarian society.

So, what's with this hating on women? First you promise to punch one in the face, and now you're saying they choose to be paid less than men? Wtf asguard.