Erroneous scientific studies: Religious people are less intelligent than atheists

Discussion in 'Religion' started by PetriFB, Aug 14, 2013.

  1. PetriFB Registered Senior Member

    In America Rochester's university has been made scientific studies and analysis led by Professor Miron Zuckerman, which claims that religious people are less intelligent than non-believers. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology Review published a summary for this scientific study. When I researched this study, so on my mind arose many thoughts that prove this scientific study as the provocation of atheism in which they show their contempt to the certain group of the people. On my writing, I also bring out some thoughts about the article of Knoxnews.

    The whole article is in my site:
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  3. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Some comments on your article:

    >The studies weren't consistent, because 10 studies found the positive correlation between intelligence and religiosity.

    Correct. That's what a meta-study means; a study of other studies. The vast majority showed a correlation between atheism and intelligence.

    >These "intelligent" people don't believe on God, and that is the reason why they don't take part to religion or religious communities.

    Correct - and that's what the study demonstrates. In GENERAL more intelligent people don't believe in God.

    >The study reported that "intelligent" people (very clear hint and reference to atheist) have ability to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend complex
    >ideas, learn quickly, and learn from experience. This information is also misleading, because into question is theoretical wisdom

    You are confusing a lot of things here. Some notes:
    1) Intelligence is not wisdom.
    2) All the above characteristics are characteristics of intelligent people.
    3) Since those are all characteristics they are not misleading.

    > Majority of Finnish Lutherans doesn't believe on God of the Bible. . . . large majority Lutherans that are recorded in prison, and criminal data are godless people.

    Are you saying that the majority of Finnish Lutherans are atheists? If so, then you are using a different definition of "atheist" than everyone else, which may explain the confusion.

    >Many atheists believe that evolution theory has proven scientifically, but the fact is that no one can't prove indisputably that evolution theory is true.

    Yes, it has been proven scientifically. We have watched organisms evolve. We know it is true because we have seen it happen.

    >For this reason, atheism is a belief as religion

    Again, you are using a different definition than everyone else. It would be like someone claiming Lutheran=criminal and then trying to talk about the stats on Lutherans in prison.

    >Believing to God of the Bible by the Lord Jesus is the gift of God that lacked from atheist, and therefore, he can't understand the truth of the Bible and can't see the real wisdom.

    Is this true of Hindus and Muslims as well? Are they unable to see wisdom as well?

    It sounds like this metastudy makes you angry, because you are a Christian and want to believe that you are intellectually superior to other people. Research doesn't work that way; your desire to have the data come out a certain way does not make that data come out a certain way.
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  5. paddoboy Valued Senior Member


    I'm not religious but I would certainly respect the likes of a Newton or maybe a George La-Maitre who both were religious.
    So I don't believe we can separate religious and scientific people on the basis of Intelligence.
    In my books religion is no more then a "questionable" theory that solves where we and the Universe come from.
    In strict scientific language it is just speculation similar to other scientific speculation such as string theory and its derivitives, parallel Universes etc etc.
    Our species needed to explain things and still do.....
    Before the scientific age the great bulk of humanity believed that the Sun, Mountains, the Moon and many other inanimate objects were Gods.
    With the advent of science and the scientific method, we have now reached the position of having the need of a divine omnipotent creator, pushed back to the BB and Evolution of life.
    Why even the Catholic church faced with the mountains of evidence supporting both theories, have come to accept both those theories.

    This is at present where science and religion part company. The Church "assume" that because as yet science cannot explain the hows and whys of evolution and the BB, that they both were the work of God.
    Science on the other hand, see the need to try and push God back even further, and even to the point of eliminating him altogether.

    The big question at this time is how much further will a valid observable QGT push back or eliminate the need for a deity.
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  7. Yazata Valued Senior Member

    Hi PetriFB. I share your skepticism about atheists' periodic boasts that they are smarter than other people. In my opinion this claim, like so much in the so-called (and in my opinion mis-named) "social sciences", is little more than rhetorical bullshit.

    Even if by some chance it was true, it wouldn't imply that a particular atheist is smarter than a particular religious person. And it most definitely wouldn't mean that individual atheists can boast about their intellectual superiority without having to actually reveal, explain, justify and defend their thinking. Frankly, I think that anyone who makes empty claims of intellectual superiority is behaving stupidly, almost by definition. That's because a truly smart person doesn't brag about being smart, he/she argues thoughtfully and well.

    I think that there may indeed be a very small difference in the mean intelligence of atheists and religious believers. Of course, a lot of that will depend on how intelligence is being defined and measured, and in how the sample populations were chosen. But yes, I think that atheists as a group might score fractionally better than religious believers as a group.

    Part of that difference might be due to self-avowed atheism's being an atypical position to take in many societies. People who hold unusual ideas may tend to be slightly smarter on average, if only because they aren't just going along with the crowd. A person's holding an unusual idea can sometimes be evidence that the person has been thinking for him or herself. If that's true, then we would probably expect to see proponents of unusual religious views scoring a little higher than average too, much like the atheists. And I believe that there's evidence that supports that hypothesis.

    Educational levels are positively correlated with intelligence scores. And here in the United States, the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) published the percentage of university graduates in the population age 25 and over, both for the population as a whole and broken down by religious adherence.

    (On p. 16 of the pdf version of the report, available here: )

    For the American over-25 population as a whole, 27% were university graduates in 2008. Among those who said that they had no religious adherence, 31% were graduates. So yes, that does suggest a slight advantage to the atheists.

    But on the other hand, when we look at the so-called "mainline Protestants", a grouping of churches popular among the United States' earlier settlers (Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Methodist and Lutheran), we find that 35% of adherents of these denominations are university graduates, scoring even better than the 'none's'. Mormons/LDS come in at 31%, the same as the 'none's'. Followers of so-called 'new religious movements' (including various 'new age' tendencies and whatever) have 33% university graduates, a little better than the 'none's'. And way up there on the top end, we find the followers of 'eastern religions' (here in the US they are mostly Buddhists) scoring a whopping 59% university graduates. (American Buddhists tend to be a mix of highly educated Asian immigrants and white American converts who are mostly college educated.)

    The groups that pull down the average for the religious adherents include the very large Roman Catholic group (57 million of them) who come in at a little below the national average at 25% university graduates. This is probably due to the Catholic ranks containing many recent Latin-American immigrants (legal and otherwise) who in many cases have little formal education. If we separated out groups like Irish or Italian Catholics, my guess is that they would score about the same as the mainline Protestants. The worst performing group were the Pentecostals and Charismatics, at 13% university graduates. These denominations have historically tended to attract the poor.

    In other words, if we break down religious adherents (and non-adherents) in a little more detail, we find that far from being way out in front of everyone else, the 'none's' seem to come in around the middle of the pack, fairly close to the national average for university attainment. My expectation is that the results of whatever tests people are using to get mean intelligence scores will show similar patterns.
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
  8. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    I like billvon's reply.

    Personally, I dislike studies like this, because they promote bigotry and pit groups of people against each other.
    Like we need any more of that, in our society.
  9. PetriFB Registered Senior Member

    Research that based on results of ISSP (International Social Survey Programme) ja GESIS:n (Institute for the Social Sciences) have brought out, that Sweden is one the most atheistic country in the world. According to the research also Czech Republic is a very atheistic country. On the research was asked among other things followed questions; I don't believe in God, I don't believe in God and I never have, believing in a Personal God. Results are from the year 2008.

    Sweden was at the front in different countries' divorce statistics. In addition, Czech Republic was at the front in that statistics. According to statistics (2000) in Sweden, the divorces' rates compared the world rates was the second most and in Czech Republic the third most when was calculated how many divorces happen per 100 marriages. The rate of Sweden was 53,9 per divorces per 100 marriages, and czech Republic rate was 53,7 divorces per 100 marriages. Finland's rate was 53,2 divorces per 100 marriages.

    In the light of preceding statistics' people who have the atheistic world view (don't believe on God) are the most divorce cases. Knoxnews's previously mentioned article of was provocation and purposely distorted, which intention was promoting of atheism.'s rape statistics reported that in the year 2009, rape case in Sweden was the fourth most in the world. In France was done the most rape cases and in Germany, the second most in the world. According to IPPS statistics, France and Germany were at the top from the countries, in which people didn't believe in God. In the light of this results people who have the atheistic world view make the most rape cases.

    From these statistics brings out that large amount of godless people lives immorality. Immorality is not an indication about the intelligent, but indications from negative and harmful lifestyle.

    In the year 2012, members of Swedish Lutheran Church were 67 percent from the population. About 2 percent from Lutherans in Sweden regularly attended to Sunday meetings. According to research Sweden was one of the most atheistic countries in the world despite it that almost 70 percent of them were members of Lutheran Church. This means that the biggest part from members of Swedish Lutheran Church doesn't believe in God. In the light of all the preceding information majority of Swedish Lutheran Church's members are godless people. Swedish divorce and rape statistics tell the fact that godless people are the most immoral people. We can see also that being a member in religious institution don't mean that they believe in God or the Bible, but the most of them are godless people. My intention is not slander godless people, but bring out the facts that stand behind the statistics.

    It is truly clear that people who believe in God of the Bible (believe in the Lord Jesus) live according to very high moral. It is very important to bring out one important thing, which distorts the facts. Pedophilia is disgusting, and evil sin of fornication (sexual sin) and crusades are against God's will. Pedophilia scandals of Roman Catholic Church (RCC) and bloody crusades done by Catholics don't represent the Biblical faith, but devilish behavior of sin and evil deeds. Roman Catholic Church is not the Church of God, but the false imitation from the Church of God.

    Many people say that the Christiany has killed millions of people. This claim is incorrect, because Roman catholic Church has killed millions of people. In reality, godless people on disguise of a believer did those horrific killings. Things done by religion don't mean the same thing as the Biblical faith. From this very clear example and indication is evil deeds of Roman Catholic Church. The real Christianity and Roman Catholic Church are totally two different things.

    Religious and theological teachings of Roman Catholic Church are against the word of God (Status of Mary and pope, sacrifice of the mass, purgatory, doctrine of indulgences, salvation through water baptism and so on). Wrong teachings, sexual crimes and killings of Roman Catholic Church show that religiousness of Roman Catholic Church is ungodliness, because RCC teaches and lives against the teaching of the Bible.

    In the matter of fact religion and religiousness represent ungodliness, because according to the teaching of the Bible believing in God by the Lord Jesus question the faith, not from the religion or religiousness. Because the Bible says that all the gods of the people are idols (religion). This means that religiousness, and religion is a sin against God. In the light of this Biblical fact, all godless people (religious people, atheists and all who don't believe to God of the Bible) commit the most crimes and live most of all immoral life.

    Criticism against Christianity that has been given for teachings and evil deeds of Roman Catholic Church has gone to the wrong address, because RCC doesn't represent the real and genuine Biblical faith, but it is false imitation from the genuine Christianity. When the target of criticism is wrong, so that kind of criticism has no value of the truth. If you have criticized from Christianity based on Roman Catholic Church's doctrine and evil deeds, so you have criticized wrong target.
  10. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

    If you think that all or in part of anything connected to a belief is fact then you aren't exactly exhibiting intelligence. No belief is fact and treating them as if they are suggests that you have suffered a loss in intelligence or maybe you never had any to start with. If you have faith in a god or gods that you believe in then you have no business saying they're fact, unless you're dumb enough not to see the error of your ways. Since atheists don't really have a belief in god(s), then by default they remain a notch higher on the intelligence scale than theists who claim their belief is fact. If you simply believe in a god and are satisfied that the belief is not fact, along with all the other beliefs that go with it, then no, you haven't slid down the intelligence pole.
  11. andy1033 Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

    No science socalled fact is an absolute fact. science is based on observation, and the observer effect.

    Humans only know what they need to too, to live there lifes. We have no idea how the observer effect dictates what people supposedly find out in science.

    Science is all observer effect so stop claiming its an absolute. You have no idea, beyond what we as humans understand. We like all animals, just know enough to live our lifes, what that means in terms of finding out the truths, means science is just an observer effect.

    Science discovers no absolutes, so stop pretending it does.
  12. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    I think you've just run up the Jolly Roger and come out as one of those people who pull down the stats for religious believers. What a load of bigoted twaddle.
  13. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

    I said nothing about science. Believing you have evidence for a belief is just as bad. If I were to say "I believe I know for a fact that you are the smartest guy in the world" or "I have no idea if you are the smartest guy in the world" then which of those statements is more intelligent than the other.
  14. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

    I don't think anyone was trying to separate religious from scientific people. (Except perhaps some church leaders, and that's how they alienate their most intelligent parishioners.)
    Whatever the purpose of a study is, it has to compare people of the same culture and generation.

    Actually the two studies i've seen didn't claim anything of the sort. They merely correlated IQ ,in one case, and education, in the other, with a greater degree of skepticism and an increased probability of departing from the belief system of their parents. Both of these probabilities are true and logical.

    If the religious leaders wanted to hold on to brighter members of their flock, they'd stop pounding them with ignorant dogma and bad politics.
  15. OriginalBiggles OriginalBiggles, Prime Registered Senior Member

    Reply to PetriFB post #6:

    You are applying to atheists those responsibilities that you deny in the religious [which includes roman catholics]. You display an illogical selectivity, an arbitrariness and bias bordering on the dishonest.

    Atheism is not a belief, it is the repudiation of a belief that others hold. Collecting postage stamps is a hobby. Your reasoning leads you to assert that not collecting postage stamps is also a hobby. Golf is a sport, therefore not playing golf is also a sport.

    You further assert that because Sweden and Czechoslovakia are largely atheistic then it follows that atheism is the cause of high divorce rates. The correlation does not follow logically any more than theses peoples' propensity for not collecting postage stamps, not playing golf of for not owning a pet greyhound is a cause for the high divorce rate. Your reasoning is specious and bigoted toward atheism.

    Equally, the "reasoning" you employ in applying the propensity to rape reveals no more than your arbitrary bigotry against atheism. Your observations about morality and its relationship to atheism is riddled with fallacy and preconceived bias.

    Ergo and ipso facto, your statement: "My intention is not slander godless people, but bring out the facts that stand behind the statistics." a blatant lie.

    Christians of the Crusades, the Inquisitions, the witch hunts followed the Old Testament with a piety and passion far greater than yours. They proclaimed their piety as they slaughtered the infidel, they wept in ecstacy as they rode their horses through Jerusalem knee deep in blood and human corpses. In the European crusades against heretics like the Cathars and Bogomils etc the true believers' ferocity, cruelty and bestialty staggers our credibility. These were devout christians like yourself. The fact that you conveniently hold to the New Testament is immaterial. Repeating your specious attempts to divorce yourself from their belief because of this will mark you as a religious windbag with no grasp of religious history.

    Whatever your religion or holy book, your sect of christianity is derived from roman catholicism as are all the other christian sects. IT'S A FACT OF HISTORY. An inconsequential windbag like you cannot change that fact. The sooner you face up to facts and rid yourself of blind bigotry, the more valuable and valued a human being you will be. Currently this atheist opines that you are confined to the shallow end of the gene pool and as a consequence will have difficulty in engaging in logical, reasoned and rational discourse.
  16. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

    While the OP is trash (and its author recently posted a duplicate, aside from copy/pasting a blog post) Yazata's post is the only one of value here.

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