# Ethical dilemma

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by spidergoat, Feb 21, 2007.

Messages:
53,966
I have a friend staying with me because he had a mental breakdown about a year ago and could no longer work. He cannot seem to find a job, and has decided to join the Navy. My dilemma is that he has been here for 6 months without paying any rent, and I want him to go already. He owes me $2,300 dollars that I let him borrow for rent at his old apartment and expenses. So, on one hand, I want him to get a career of sorts, job training, and an income to pay me back, but I think the military is a bad choice. I hear him sometimes yelling and cursing himself and other times sobbing hysterically. He has described some of his behavior that sounds like schizophrenia or bi-polar disorder. I really think he's mentally ill. At this point, if he doesn't go into the military, he will be homeless. Should I reveal his condition to the recruiters, or should I let him go? 2. ### Google AdSenseGuest Advertisement to hide all adverts. 3. ### NickelodeonBannedBanned Messages: 10,581 Can't you get him sectioned? 4. ### Google AdSenseGuest Advertisement to hide all adverts. 5. ### Baron MaxRegistered Senior Member Messages: 23,053 The military will find out about him in a very short time. If it's bad enough, they'll kick his ass out; if it's controllable, they might let him be a supply clerk or cook's helper or a ...well, any of about a gazillion different jobs. We had a guy sorta' like that when I went through basic and he was "mysteriously" gone one day ....no one knew what happened to him, but all of his gear and clothes were just ......POOF.... gone! Baron Max 6. ### Google AdSenseGuest Advertisement to hide all adverts. 7. ### spidergoatLiddle' Dick TaterValued Senior Member Messages: 53,966 Nickelodeon, What's that mean? Baron Max, I guess they will find out soon enough, I also forgot to mention he's autistic, he's on the older end of the age range, and he's a vegan. Will he still get paid anything if he doesn't make it through basic? Will he get any benefits like mental health councelling? 8. ### NickelodeonBannedBanned Messages: 10,581 In the UK a person can be sectioned if they are perceived to be a threat to themselves or other people. It came in under The Mental Health Act, which was introduced in 1983. Under the Act, patients can be sectioned or detained against their will and given treatment. But that's only really for those who may be a threat to others. If he isnt, then I dont suppose it applies. If the military realise it as Baron says, what happens to him? I presume they dont just kick em out onto the streets. If they help him then thats another case. 9. ### spidergoatLiddle' Dick TaterValued Senior Member Messages: 53,966 Oh, you mean committed to a mental hospital? He was actually thinking of checking himself in to one. He's aware of his condition. 10. ### darksidZzValued Senior Member Messages: 4,923 Wow spidergoat Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I've gotta tell ya this is a situation I'm all to familiar with. I'm on Zoloft right now for depression, which actually turns out might be more of an Asperger's Syndrome than Dysthymia. Anyway your problem is a difficult one! So your friend owes you money, he wants to join the military... I'll tell you I actually did exactly the same thing. I tried to get away from my father by joining the Army. It was around 1999 I think, just a few months after graduation. So yeah, the Army sucks beyond anything you can imagine. I was able to get there but never made it to basic training, I passed out then spent 1 month attempting to convince them to let me go. I finally got them to release me when I had papers from previous mental health facilities faxed over to the Captain for my division. I don't remember alot about it there but here's the truth... the order, the pristine order, that's what I liked.. they did the same thing each day, and it was beautiful. The real problems came up when I had to do their physical stuff, my stamina's never really been very good. I couldn't finish the run they wanted in the alotted time so they were gonna send me to FTC (Fitness Training Center) sometimes called Fat Camp. It wasn't that I was out of shape though, I worked out regulary, it just happens that different people have varying degrees of health. So although I wasn't very terribly depressed there I certainly couldn't handle the physical training if I'd gone to basic. I ended up spending my time in the recruiting center waiting for them to get me out of there. Some things I hated were the fact they made us speak, why the didn't just make us do other things I'll never understand... like the dumb songs... "First to fight for the right then to build the nations might and the Army keeps rolling along, proud of all we have done fighting till the battles won and the Army keeps rolling along, and it's high high hay! the Armies on it's way." Bla bla... it's all mindless nonsense friend, made-up by those who have money. If I had riches I too could make a system up far better than the one they have, in which society would be formed to my unique vision Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Anyways... things would be fine for your friend if it only required him to work, but the military requires you to do much more, and I found I was incapable of it. He'll find that he too suffers the same fate I think. The best thing to do might be get your friend on Social Security Income or SSI. Once this is done he can begin finding more out about state programs to help the disabled. I'm working right now but I make 11 an hour, working 32 hours a week, it's barely enough to survive living at home let alone on my own. You'll find the mentally ill are not treated very well, often insulted on job interviews and treated like trash. I will not stand for this however and plan to kill all humans very soon :L Yea so the military is not the place for us, the state programs aren't very good and you always hear about them whining how they have no money. It's pathetic honestly, "we have no money" or "no space available" well umm... fuck you?! Stupid state shit is a joke, but SSI would get him money coming in so he can pay you rent... 11. ### spidergoatLiddle' Dick TaterValued Senior Member Messages: 53,966 Interestingly, his last job was working for the state, teaching life skills to an autistic man, going to his job with him to assist, working out, running. So his physical condition isn't bad. It was only 24 hours a week, but he was making about$20 per hour. His own mild autism gave him a unique insight into the severly autistic. He already got food stamps, and that's about all you can get without health insurance. I don't know about Social Security. The money part is the least of my worries, I need my personal space back, since I too have Asperger's Syndrome. His problems might be more severe due to meth addiction when he was younger.

I should point out that he doesn't actually desire to join the military, it just seems to him like the best option now. He doesn't care about politics, he didn't even know there was a war on. He thinks the part about order and knowing the rules will suit his autism, and that's true, there are alot of servicemen with autism. I just afraid that his judgement is flawed and I cannot offer any alternative course that doesn't also affect me in an adverse way.

12. ### SyzygysAs a mother, I am telling youValued Senior Member

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12,671
He will be taken by the military, because they are so stretched and pushed for recruits. Even if they find out about his condition, they will take him. So it boils down to your moral obligation....

There was a high school student who was curious just how far the recruiters are willing to go, so he lied about himself:

--I have comitted felonies
--That's OK.
--I have used drugs.
--Fine with us.
--I am not able to pass the test.

The only thing what stopped them was when he said he was gay....

13. ### redarmy11Registered Senior Member

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7,658
I suspect that a diagnosis of serious mental disorder would also be a stopping point. Mind you, this is the American military we're talking about, so..

14. ### spidergoatLiddle' Dick TaterValued Senior Member

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He is good at hiding it, and he's smart, did great on the tests. He knows what people want to hear.

15. ### Baron MaxRegistered Senior Member

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23,053
He better be damned good at hiding it, cause there's gonna' be a helluva lot of people around him all the time for about sixteen weeks or so! And that's just basic and specialized training, not to mention later. No one can hide such things from that many people for that long.

And if he actually can hide it, then he ain't much different from millions of people in the world!!! ...LOL!

Baron Max

16. ### GirlzillaRegistered Member

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29
Sounds like he's using the Army as his fallback plan, and to me it sounds doomed for failure. Being in between jobs, searching and not finding can be depressing in and of itself, let alone actually having mental problems along with it. I think you should dissuade him from joining the Army and instead help him find a different job. Push him to look harder. There has to be a job somewhere out there better suited for him.

17. ### spidergoatLiddle' Dick TaterValued Senior Member

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53,966
I probably should. Goodwill sometimes provides jobs for people in similar situations.

18. ### NickelodeonBannedBanned

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10,581
Maybe he has low self esteem.

19. ### spidergoatLiddle' Dick TaterValued Senior Member

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That's an understatement. He's borderline suicidal. He rants and curses at himself like a madman, it's rather disturbing.

It's sad that people like him fall through the cracks, the way our society treats (ignores) the mentally ill is shameful.

20. ### Alanaxh ElleilRegistered Member

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9
Why did you take this guy in in the first place?

This is a tough question. But you probably could go either way. The military will find out sooner than later about his mental health issues. However, it would be a waste of time to have him go there knowing that he won't get in.

Maybe there's someway to get him seen by a doctor that can help him with his medical conditions.

I'm also worried that you are in danger living with him... and he owes you money. I'm sure all of that doesn't really help, but good luck.

21. ### NickelodeonBannedBanned

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10,581
You said he used to work before he had a mental breakdown. What did he do?

22. ### spidergoatLiddle' Dick TaterValued Senior Member

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He worked with autistic people, and was very good at it. He had one steady client, a young man that couldn't speak, but who you could teach simple tasks. He was given a job at a local supermarket, and my friend's job was to supervise. The manager of the supermarket (ostensibly a socially responsible, organic friendly-type place), did not quite understand my friend's role, and was a bitch on top of that. The other employees looked down on him, since he wasn't actually an employee. Finally the situation escalated, the state agency that placed him there got involved, tension increased, and my friend quit, giving up the only good job he ever had.

23. ### GirlzillaRegistered Member

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That state agency should be called up - see if they can find another job for him. They shouldn't have just let him quit like that without a contigency plan, mostly considering something like this would happen afterwards.