Evolution v Intelligent Design; Should we really teach evolution?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Norsefire, Aug 20, 2008.

  1. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Firstly, before the discussion, which I hope is intellectual and constructive, begins, I would like you to check out the following videos

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKFanG5s01M
    The Scientific Method

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl1MClbdCj0
    Darwin vs Intelligent Design

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    The first is not necessary, but in order to really understand what I'm saying here, you have to watch the second.

    Both are entertaining and informative, which is a huge plus, of course. My argument, or rather, the structure of the entire argument that I am looking for is to be built off of those videos, so please watch and enjoy.
    ----

    Now, back to evolution and intelligent design. Both have no concrete evidence, but both are logical enough ideas. I, being an agnostic, consider both open to serious possibility at the moment, until further conclusive proof is found.

    My main point is addressed to atheists, however, because they, for some reason unknown to me, treat intelligent design as the same thing as creationism (see my "religion and concept" thread); for instance, if you suggest intelligent design, they say "sure it's possible, about as possible as us being [insert ridiculous thing here]". But seriously, intelligent design is a serious and logical idea about how we came to be: that we were created. What is so amazing ridiculous about that that you need to go off comparing it to us being the hair of a blue unicorn in zawaza?

    However, also, evolution isn't fact. It's theory. It hasn't been observed and doesn't have serious evidence.

    Do we really want to teach evolution as undeniable fact, when it remains a theory (and, although it has a good number of circumstancial evidence, it lacks any serious objective conclusive evidence)?

    In my opinion, both intelligent design and evolution should be taught, but not as facts, but as ideas.

    *Attention*
    Keep in mind, this is about intelligent design and evolution, NOT creationism and evolution.
     
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  3. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

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    Scientists have witnessed Speciation(apparently not a word) in labs. I'll go fetch the link.
     
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  5. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

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  7. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    As the video stated, merely natural selection and developing certain traits isn't proof that an organism can transform into an entirely other organism. Furthermore, the idea of intelligent design is still a viable one and, as explained in the video, remains a real possibility.
     
  8. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

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    Well you are half right. This is a big improvement on your part.
     
  9. shaman_ Registered Senior Member

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    I skimmed and saw these words. No offence is intended Norsefire but when you say things like that you are demonstrating that you know very little about the subject matter.
     
  10. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

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    We're not understanding each other, right now I'm now sure whose fault that is. This isn't just developing certain traits, this is speciation, an entirely other organism.
     
  11. Roman Banned Banned

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    You can tell when an argument is weak when they use semantics.
    "Doctrine"? Seriously? This guy probably doesn't understand what a theory means, either.

    And we have seen animals change from one type to another- Darwin himself bred pigeons into ludicrous proportions. He had some he called "rollers" because he could roll them. We've turned corn from little itty bitty things to great big things.

    So- if we've made chihuahua's and mastiffs from the same basal dog, and we've seen selection occur in the wild, doesn't that lead to FAR more evidence than "something intelligent did it"?
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2008
  12. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    How am I half right?

    I do know evolution is a theory. If it was a fact, it'd have proof, which it doesn't.

    Depending on how you define species. How about complexity? Can you "speciate" to become as complex as a Human being?
     
  13. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

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    Agreed.

    Fossil records are there, and it seems illogical for an Intelligent designer to leave fossils laying around for us to find. Also, in order for something to be scientifically regarded as a theory it must encompass all available evidence into one theory which can be disproved. The only reason it isn't regarded as fact is because it CAN be disproved, and it will never be fact because it can always be disproved no matter the evidence provided for it.
     
  14. Hercules Rockefeller Beatings will continue until morale improves. Moderator

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    Well, there's an early indication of how intelligent this thread is going to be.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  15. KennyJC Registered Senior Member

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    No concrete evidence of an intelligent designer... in fact barely enough to even begin a hypothesis. And so even though you do have a hypothesis of an intelligent creator, that's it... you can't go any further than that, which is why it can never be science.

    Evolution isn't a philosophy. It is backed up by large amounts of evidence in many different scientific fields.
     
  16. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Fossil records are only proof of the existence of organisms, not their evolution.
     
  17. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Nor did I state that it was indeed science; I am only trying to show that it remains a viable and reasonable enough idea and a real possibility.

    What evidence is that? If you believe I'm uninformed, please, go ahead and inform me.
     
  18. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

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    What I just posted addresses the first part, for the second part, ever heard of a dictionary? Species are defined as groups of animals(sorry, I don't know how else to say it)that can't breed with each other. Many people think this is a bad definition, and it is because we have ligers, but it'll do for this case.
     
  19. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

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    This thread is filling up way to fast. And I will also look up some logical evidence for evolution.
     
  20. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    However it has to do more with the question of complexity. Humans are very complex.

    Now, intelligent design doesn't have to be by "God"; it's very possible that "extra terrestrial" intelligence could've either sparked or helped the development of humanity. Do you find that idea absurd?
     
  21. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

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  22. Roman Banned Banned

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    All science is theory. You can't actually prove anything in science, only falsify.

    Species are poorly defined. It's not necessarily groups that cannot breed, it's groups that do not breed. So you can cross a lot of stuff, but it doesn't happen in the wild due to barriers, whether biological, social, or geographical.
     
  23. Betrayer0fHope MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Registered Senior Member

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    You're asking me if its absurd that aliens might have come down from their spaceships before history and altered our DNA and whatnot to make us very complex? Am I understanding you correct?
     

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