Evolution v Intelligent Design; Should we really teach evolution?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Norsefire, Aug 20, 2008.

  1. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,758
    It is actually you that thinks wrong. Evolution is a fact, (and theories). Oh and note that 'theory' does not mean guess or assumption. It is as much a fact as gravity is a fact, (and theories). Of course studying it will help you recognise that fact.

    Clearly a lot more than you have acquired, (not being rude, just factual).

    Furthermore: Here

    Out of interest, might I first enquire as to your education on such matters?

    The honest answer or the emotionally pleasing answer?

    Honest: Pointless completely evidenceless horseshit.

    Emotionally pleasing: Aww, it's cute.

    Of course, that's all without mentioning that if this completely evidenceless god guided and indeed initially programmed evolution, he's a moronic twat [search ID: Incompetent Design].
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    Back in the day, they thought Creationism was fact.

    As I said, it does not have evidence. It's understandable that, because of this, there is no reason to believe it. However, I'm more curious as to your stance on the concept. Do you find it absolutely impossibly ridiculous?

    I mean, it makes sense, and the problem is, if indeed it is the case, we wouldn't have evidence because by God "guiding" the evolution, we could only have evidence that evolution exists.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. buckybeam Registered Member

    Messages:
    272
    ha ha ha i like it.

    yeah i suppose thats true. if god created the universe then who created god. that's a fav topic of mine.

    i dont think you understand... this is all iv ever thought. what if after what if. 35 years that i can remember. morning noon and night. awake and sleeping. it is me.

    but turtle aside

    we are beginning to reach the point when we will be the creationists. dont laugh it not that far away. or would we be intelligent designers?
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    bucky, there are two problems with questioning the origins of "God,

    1) It makes equally no sense either way with nature or God

    2) God would be outside of the universe and, therefore, not bound by our own universal ways
     
  8. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,758
    O....k, evolution is a fact, regardless to what one thinks.

    There you go then, the issue is settled right there. When you have some, feel free to bring it up again.

    Well, there wasn't much of a concept given. That which was given yes, I find ridiculous. No, I don't talk absolutes.

    To who, where, how?
     
  9. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    Yes, for now. For all we know, a new biologist later on will come along with something far better. Who knows?

    It's settled only in so far as there is no point believing in God. However, the concept, still needs to be kept, because it still is a real possibility.

    The concept that there is higher life than us, and this higher life guided our evolution. What exactly is so ridiculous about that?

    Do you believe that there is other intelligent life in the universe?

    To any rationalist.
     
  10. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,758
    Well, things either do evolve or they don't evolve. It is already a fact that they do. Yes, there will be new theories to accompany that fact, but the facts are facts.

    Great, we're done here.

    No more than any other completely pointless unevidenced 'concept'. They are not "real" possibilities, they are pointless imaginations.

    What does higher even mean? If you mean higher as in vastly more intelligent then there's plenty ridiculous about it [search ID: Incompetent Design].

    Emotionally: I would hope so, would be an awful waste of space otherwise. I also love Star Trek Voyager

    Honestly: I am open to evidence.

    Lol.
     
  11. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    The clerics of Medieval Europe thought it was absolute fact that Creationism was true. Again, they were disproven, and you can be too.

    Done? Far from it! We still have to find out how the universe began.

    Much more; certainly a rational man like yourself can see how the concept arises? Again, the only two possibilties for the beginning of the universe is that it began naturally, or was created. That enough makes it relevant, BOTH of them.

    Higher, as in, more advanced. What's ridiculous about the idea of higher life?

    I did search for Incompetent Design, and that's hardly any logic against ID. We are imperfect beings....Ok? What does that mean? If you were God, would you have created man to be perfect?

    Exactly, there is nothing ridiculous about the concept of more advanced life.

    I think we are on different terms here; you think I'm referring to "God" in a supernatural/magical way. I am not. I am simply referring to "God" in a "higher life" way. God could simply be a higher life form.
     
  12. buckybeam Registered Member

    Messages:
    272
    i think that you were sleeping during quantum mechanics? the planck lenght, quantum gravity... universal therory?

    but gravity has been proven to exist. like when that brick fell on your head.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    what do you want me to say. fuck what everybody else thinks. cram it down their throats and if they resist jail them?


    but you are missing the point :thumbsup: I AM AN EVOLUTIONIST :thumbsup:
     
  13. buckybeam Registered Member

    Messages:
    272
    ok?

    sorry but really...Hitler has to go
     
  14. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    He's a genius.
     
  15. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
  16. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    He is...:shrug:

    It doesn't mean I agree with him, but he is the perfect leader
     
  17. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    How can you say that when he made so many strategic mistakes? He sacrificed Germany for his own vanity.
     
  18. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    He made some mistakes, yes, in the war, but as for Germany, absolutely perfect leader. A powerful will, he isn't afraid to make sacrficies, and he is efficient and got the job done.
     
  19. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,758
    Clearly there is a difference in the understanding of the word 'fact' between modern day scientists and clerics of medieval Europe. Frankly it doesn't come as a surprise.

    There was a giant mashed potato and a giant sausage - both eternal. As chance would have it they accidentally collided and caused the big bang(ers and mash). Look, any idiot can postulate any idiotic idea he feels is warranted. Short of some mildly interesting conversation after a few pints, I fail to see its value.

    You have diddly squat to present for your "god did it" hypothesis and so there really is nothing to discuss. Come back to me when you have something.

    Absolutely. It is hardly worth mentioning how ancient people, (that knew nothing about the world let alone the universe), created thousands of invisible gods to explain the things they couldn't understand but that modern day people have invented a grand total of zero, (well, let's give Hubby some merit.. 1).

    There was a time when the gods were responsible in matters of weather, (indeed the bible is full of passages concerning that gods control over the weather). For centuries the religious masses, the churches thought that god was the cause of lightning. Franklin and the lightning rod put and end to that. For a while the churches wouldn't dare use these things - weather was in the hands of god. It took a while for them to notice that places with lightning rods didn't get damage while those that didn't have rods kept receiving damage. But it's the will of god the chuches would argue, unable to separate facts from their fiction. In 1767 the church in Venice, having stored two hundred thousand pounds of gunpowder in its vaults, got whacked by lightning and caused one sixth of the entire city to be destroyed and over 3,000 lives to be lost. This was seventeen years after Franklins discovery - all because there are those that would rather cling to hocus pocus than understand, acknowledge and accept facts. It doesn't stop there, countless religious twerps died because of their inability to learn.

    But now in the year 2008 you wont find one religious person that claims that the weather is controlled by gods. Long ago did they forget the claims in their book to gods making the weather, controlling the weather, making rainbows as signs of godly promises. Nope, even the theists had to cave in eventually to reality, to facts.

    Since then they have shifted their attention to evolution. It is exactly the same as the weather - a fact they must ignore. In this instance it likely wont be as disasterous to them and so they will hang onto it longer. It doesn't make it less stupid. The thing is of course that the moderates are actually collapsing already. Now they come up with your statement: "well, our god exists.. he uhh made evolution". It's idiocy wrapped up in idiocy.

    And what do we have left in the year 2008? "Well, gods are 'possible', no we have no evidence but.. well, they're possible". Indeed, and that is the only niche that the religious can hold on to. No, we've long since forgotten about the weather, about plagues, about fortune and misfortune etc etc. The theist world is crumbling into the dust right before his eyes and once when religion and gods have finally gone the way of the dodo - people will still understand how the concept arose.

    In fact even the children understand it. They sit there and work out that they have parents and their parents have parents and their grandparents have parents.. A long way down the line they come up with a "higher" parent. That's when they turn around and ask "dad, who made god?"

    It is that level of thinking which continues into adulthood in the theist mind.

    More advanced how? Don't get me wrong but earlier you used the word 'god'. With that word comes a lot of baggage. Do you now just mean some alien civ?

    Perfect? I don't use the word - indeed I consider it a meaningless word. Would I give people a blind spot? No. Would I have them grow wisdom teeth? No. Would I cause cows, ducks, cats, people, etc etc to grow all kinds of useless limbs for no good reason? No.

    Oh, incase you were wondering:

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    Frankly that is stupid, plain and simple idiocy - if you are going to use words such as "advanced", "intelligent", "higher". My grandmother is smarter and shes 96 and one gunman short of a posse.

    Strange, for most theists there is. The very notion of alien entities kind of upsets them typically. Still, I agree with you - theists are weird.

    Look, if we're talking little green men then let me know. Earlier you said "god". There comes a lot of baggage with that word.

    Look man, nowadays it seems you new age theists are using god in any bloody way you feel like. Kinda hard to keep up.
     
  20. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    He was an absolute failure. For instance, he killed many Jewish scientists that could have given him the atomic bomb before the US got it. He could have used the Jews for manual labor instead of killing some millions of them. The manual labor they were forced to do was crap because they weren't given food or proper tools (with some exceptions). He failed to develop any long range bombers. His enigma code was cracked. Most of all, he started another front in Russia which caused his end. Many of the strategic goals of his military were purely symbolic and fufilled no real military objective besides his ego. His economic strategy consisted of forcing other nations into slavery, and being a parasite upon their resources. Even discounting for the moment his cruelty, he was a failure as a leader. The only thing he did well was manipulate the public mind with propaganda and fear.
     
  21. SnakeLord snakeystew.com Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,758
    'Proof' is a word best left to mathematics and alcohol. You certainly wont find me using the word because I recognise that absolutes are beyond us. Gravity is however a fact - Walk off the roof of your house, that should be sufficient enough to establish the case. Yes, we can debate the whys and the hows, (theory - no, that does not mean guess or assumption), but gravity, like evolution, is a fact.

    I don't really care.

    Regards,
     
  22. buckybeam Registered Member

    Messages:
    272
    id start posting but ive had too much beer.
    see ya tomorrow... maybe.
     
  23. Roman Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,560
    I'd like to see the evidence for that one.

    Because prediction of single particles in isolation is much more difficult that predicting billions of particles?

    Though a reclusive billionaire has finished building a supercomputer that analyzes proteins. It will soon begin to unravel the mysteries of life. It's going to be as important to biology as the microscope.
     

Share This Page