# Extra Dimensions

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Willem, Jul 17, 2019.

1. ### WillemBannedBanned

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The extra dimensions of string theory need not be curled up: we would also not notice them if they were superimposed on the 4 dimensions of spacetime.

3. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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I don't see how that can be true.

We know there are three extended spatial dimensions because we can wave our arms through X Y and Z axes, and we need only those three terms to define a precise spatial location. If there were a fourth spatial dimension, we could wave our arm through it, and we would need a fourth coordinate to specify its location. We don't. Recreating three coordinates (and no more than three) puts my arm in exactly the same location each time.

The term "superimposed" is odd here. The very nature of a dimension is that it is a degree of freedom, through which things can move independently (orthagonally) of all other degrees of freedom (otherwise they would not be degrees of freedom). If other dimensions are "superimposed" then there is overlap of some sort. So you would not be free to move orthagonally.

Last edited: Jul 17, 2019
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5. ### James RJust this guy, you know?Staff Member

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What do you mean by "superimposed on"?

7. ### WillemBannedBanned

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I mean: superimposed on such that nodes of one overlaps nodes of the other in a one-to-one way.

8. ### exchemistValued Senior Member

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Dimensions do not have nodes. Waves have nodes.

9. ### WillemBannedBanned

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The spacetime events overlap.

10. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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"An event is the instantaneous physical situation or occurrence associated with a point in spacetime (that is, a specific place and time)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_(relativity)

i.e. When spacetime events "overlap" they are, by definition, one event.

So "spacetime events overlap" isn't really meaningful.

But more to the point: it doesn't further your assertion about extra dimensions at all. Events in spacetime are events definable by three spatial coordinates and one time coordinate.

So?

11. ### WillemBannedBanned

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They are the same event but spacetime may fluctuate differently than the extra dimensional events, revealing them.

I don't know what you mean.

I agree, don't understand the "So?"

12. ### James RJust this guy, you know?Staff Member

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This sounds like meaningless waffle.

Spacetime fluctuating? What is that supposed to mean? And what does an event fluctuating mean? Spacetime and events are not the same thing, and can't even be directly compared.

Revealing them? What does that mean? Revealing what? The spacetime? The event? What? Revealing it how?

13. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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Right. So maybe pick up a book on spacetime physics before coming up with ideas?

Again: since a point in spacetime can be defined by exactly three space coordinates and one time coordinate, there can't be any more than those dimensions that are expanded. If there were, we would need more than four coordinates to define any given event in spacetime. Also, we would be able to move through them.

With 4 spatial dimensions and 1 time dimension, defining a unique event would require specifying five coordinates (w,x,y,z,t).

Merely identifying a point with (x,y,z,t) would be insufficient; in a 5D universe, those coordinates define an infinite number of points (i.e. a line) in the extra "w" dimension, and we would be free to move anywhere along that line. This does not happen. We observe that we only need 3 space coordinates and 1 time coordinate - at least in our macroscopic world.

14. ### river

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To your last statement , in the microscopic world as well .

All we need is three dimensions , length , breadth and depth . To understand any physical thing and life .

Time is a dimension of movement . To a different position in a space . Because of the physical thing and its interactions with other physical things .

Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
15. ### DaveC426913Valued Senior Member

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The point of this thread is that:

- there could be many more spatial dimensions than we experience - according to string theory, there might be seven more (for a total of 10 spatial dimensions plus time - or even 22 (20 spatial plus 2 time).
- if true, these extra dimensions are thought to be curled up so tight that they are far, far smaller than an atom. When we wave our arm, we are indeed waving it through these other dimensions, but the dimensions are so tiny that they do not exhibit macro movement.

16. ### river

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Understood .

And the reverse is true as well .

Those that wave their arms through these other dimensions , in their dimensions , is also true .

Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
17. ### Michael 345New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldlValued Senior Member

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I was thinking about space coordinates while thinking about programs like Star Trek when they make a pronouncement like "We are going to explore Section 3 in Quadrant 5"

From where is the start off point?

ie which point have they designated UP and therefore at same time DOWN
Likewise LEFT / RIGHT
and FORWARD / BACK

Tricky positions space coordinates

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18. ### WillemBannedBanned

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Spacetime fluctuating means the events change their distance from other events. This takes spacetime events off the events/points of the extra dimensions, making them detectable.

We need a similar thing to gravity's spacetime for electromagnetism. In which case we need the extra dimensions: {(x_1, x_2, x_3, x_4) : x an element of R^4} not = {(x_0, x_1, x_2, x_3) : x an element of R^4}

Last edited: Jul 21, 2019
19. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member

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space-time compression

The entropic sense of time becoming more compressed to an infinite point makes sense is a human logic sense.
it is a reverse concept of the universes expansion.

that does tend to be very basic though.

that doesn't mean it is very simple, or complex.
the assumption of the concept being defined as a constant, is not a rule of physics from my laymens understanding.
while there are constants, the constant compression into infinity seems to appeal to a human thought concept around biological function of the Ego inside a biological absolute frame work.

probability of sequential frequency defines a statistical value which may be represented in a mathematical value of compression, however, the probability scale being inverted from actuality maintains its particle physics absolutes(in theory).

does this rule out simultaneous co-existance ?
when the event is multi dimensional then the event over laps various points simultaneously.
co-dependant space-time positioning may be purely circumstantial.
1 influencing factor bearing the cross dimensional function may produce a scaling differential to the other events.