Ferguson Verdict and Liberalism

Discussion in 'Politics' started by wellwisher, Nov 25, 2014.

  1. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    you know considering you lacked the emotion maturity to be called out and yours and ran away cause you couldn't handle the consequences of your statements perhaps you shouldn't be throwing those kinds of comments around. someone might note the rampant hypocrisy needed to do so.
     
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  3. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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    Um, you do realize that you're just too dumb to even bother with, right?
     
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  5. Bells Staff Member

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    Is that what you are doing?

    Or are you just doing the whole angry woman weirdo thing again?

    This thread has a subject matter. How about you discuss it?

    If you have a problem with me, then take it to the appropriate forum.

    Yes, I am a solicitor.

    And can you please link where I have ever expressed the thought or belief that I am glad two police officers were killed?

    And I find your obsession with me and what I do for a living to be weird. Not weird in a funny way. But weird in the way that you are coming across as the type of person who digs through people's trash to collect used sanitary pads kind of weird. Can you stop please? Because in case you haven't noticed, you are way more interested in me than I am in you or anything about you. I have asked you to stop this kind of behaviour towards me several times now. I tried ignoring you, you didn't stop. Others have also asked you to stop. You didn't stop. And you are still doing it, and you are still driving threads off topic with your pathological need to comment about Tiassa and I in some way, shape or form. Please stop.

    If you cannot discuss this thread and what it is about, then perhaps you should take up knitting or buy a chihuahua and pat it or something. I don't really care.

    Do you have something to say or add about the grand jury decision in the Wilson case? Do you have something to add in regards to the OP? Have you even read the OP? Do you agree with it? Do you disagree with it?

    What about the natural course of the thread which is now discussing the evidence presented in the hearing? What are your opinions on the prosecutor advising that he knew some of the eyewitnesses and material witnesses were lying and that the material witness was not even there and never saw what she testified to?

    In other words, discuss the thread. Not me.
     
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  7. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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    or both.
     
  8. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    come from someone as bigoted, self absorbed, egotistical, and ignorant as you i'll take as a compliment. also the word dumb is a synonym for mute not stupid. and thank you for proving my point. your right you can't be bothered to busy trolling mods
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2014
  9. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    that would be you and joe delibrately lying about what the evidence suggests.
     
  10. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    for all the people harping on the defending wilsons irresponsible killing of an unarmed man are intentionlly missing the point.
    1. yet again a cop has killed an unarmed black man.
    2. that a cop has once again killed an unarmed person with zero consequence.
    3. that a grand jury once again failed to indict a police officer for killing an unarmed person.
    4. that the percentages of indictments for cops and everyone else are completely flipped. a grand jury will almost always vote to indict. where as if it is a cop they almost never do.
    the problem isn't the one case. its the pattern. if you can't get that you don't need to be commenting.
     
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    If you actually read that article, you will find that the "consistency" they describe between Wilson's account and the forensic evidence is with a general description of Wilson's account and a couple of somewhat poorly described specifics of the physical evidence.

    The inconsistencies I have describe here, between Wilson's account and the physical facts I think are significant, are not addressed in that article.

    For example: One of the shell casings they describe as "close to the car" is about as far away from it - several feet - as the distance from the center of one edge of the group (where the gun would be ejecting them in one direction) and the farthest casings, from the ten shots fired later - so if that spacing is evidence of two shots from the same place, it also works as evidence of ten shots from the same place. And that agrees with the professional audio analysis of the recorded ten shots, which specified that they were all fired from within a one meter circle. So the physical evidence from two independent sources is easily seen as consistent, but not with Wilson's account. The Post article obtains support for Wilson by interpreting equivalent shell spacing differently in the two groups, and ignoring the audio analysis of the gunshots.

    Here's the official shell casing location, on a website with some other doubts about this evidence but originally from the Washington Post as provided by the Ferguson police (there's NYT photograph that verifies it, but I can't find it easily). http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-liberal/2014/11/did-ferguson-pd-move-the-shell-casings-2495202.html Look at the distance between the two casings "close to the car" and the ten casings from each other - remembering that the gun used kicks the casings up and to the right with some force, so the firing circle specified by the audio analysis would be along the upper edge of the group. A one meter circle drawn in the middle of that edge easily accounts for all the casings, based on the scattering distance displayed by the two fired from the driver's seat inside the police car (according to Wilson).

    And so forth.

    (The question of how those two casings ended up outside the car, like the question of how Wilson was punched through the car window so hard he feared incapacitation but ended up with nothing but mild bruising to the back of his neck and back right jawline (the other side of his head from the car window), or the question of exactly how a charging person would sustain the entry wounds in the arm marked by the autopsy, or the question of why Wilson stopped firing for three full seconds in the middle of what he described as Brown's charge, and a dozen more odd little differences between what one would expect from Wilson's account and what we see on the ground, we can forget - they will never be answered).
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
  12. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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    Me? Bigoted? Pfft, really? You’re the one who’s using two alleged thugs to represent all black Americans. The majority of Americans are law abiding citizens. A high school educational film on how to submit to an arrest may be helpful.

    What? The altercation was at the window. It wasn't a static shooting. It was a dynamic, real-life confrontation, where the officer probably had to twist his wrist, or turn his firearm at unusual angles. There are way too many variables to determine the shooter’s position from the shell casings. They do bounce around, you know.
     
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    You betcha. Now all you have to do is square that with Wilson's account, where he didn't have his gun drawn until after he was punched through the window, and Brown went for it as he drew it from his right hip inside the car, before the first shot - which was fired from inside the car. And then notice that the two casings ended up almost exactly as far apart as the ten casings Wilson said he fired while running backwards for either seven seconds or about four seconds depending on Wilson version. And then recall that the audio analysis agrees with the obvious conclusion you have just supported: all ten shots in the second round were fired from a one meter circle, and Wilson was making shit up about the car events as well as the final shooting of Brown.

    But that's the kind of stuff one needs cross examination to clear up - the kind of careful exploration of testimony and evidence one gets at a trial, which we are not going to see.
     
  14. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    yes you. you tend to get called a bigot when you make bigoted statements.
    Please refrain from lying about what i'm doing. i know you only have a passing aquaintince with the truth but please don't think i hold my self to the same low standard you do. I have uses no two of any group to represent said group.
    Mayhaps. and so to probably are the majority of unarmed individuals the cops kill. again that you try and lie about what i'm doing to protect your own bigotry says a lot about you.
     
  15. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    Ad-hominem? Was she not repeating the same things over and over?
    Was there not another poster who was shut down using that very premise?

    My suggestion, James, would be that you go away now and read up on what an ad-hominem attack actually is.

    And then consider that at no point have I levelled any accusations at anyone on the premise of dismissing their arguments based upon who they are, rather than what they are saying.

    I absolutely agree. On this site, there was no other way the opening premise was going to be discussed.

    Yes, I agree. The play book, I've discussed elsewhere. To the point where I'm absolutely despairing of having to discuss again. and again. and again. and again. and again...

    Not anymore. The horses have bolted. That is, after all, how things work around here now. Misdirection is a very old tactic, but still used because it is quite effective.

    Heh. Put in a complaint about Bells, Tiassa and James which will be dealt with by Bells, Tiassa and James.
    Ah dear... a genuine lol. So rare around here now.

    I'm not complaining about the moderation here, James. I'm comparing it to the authorities that same moderation is attacking.
    Again, something you would have picked up on if you'd actually read anything I'd written, rather than relying upon others interpretation of it.

    You just don't get it, do you? Here's the basic premise, just for you:
    While the ideologies might differ, the strategies used to highlight those ideologies in order to ridicule them, or to bring them down, are identical across the entire spectrum.
    You are what you hate.

    I've already made arguments in full, James, here and there. I know you don't take the time to read anymore, but that isn't my problem - it's yours.
    And on that note, you should really consider changing your signature. Aristotle, and you... not really on the same page. Feel me?

    Those "unnamed events" are quite clear to those who actually read things, James. They have, in fact, been pointed out on more than one occasion.
    Don't ask me to make up for your laziness. Just ask Bells - she'll fill you in.
     
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    No. This "play book" you allege is an assertion of yours, which you have repeated elsewhere but never actually managed to discuss or argue. The discussion of it has been brief, by others, and quickly to the point: it's nonsense, quite similar to the even sillier initial contention of the OP of this thread.

    Continuing on into areas of actual discussion (or attempting to, once the garbage has been tossed out) is normal, in this forum. Your difficulty with it is notable, but not the fault of other people, or the result of their flaws of character and approach which occupy so much - the entirety, here - of your posting.

    Not yet. But there's time: So make the comparison. You know - an argument. From reality.
     
    Bells and James R like this.
  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    The Marquis:

    I could have just settled for hitting "like" on iceaura's post above. But...

    My mistake, then. It looked to me like you were complaining that Bells was repeating herself in some way and shouldn't be allowed to do so. Or something like that.

    Am I part of your complaint? Interesting. I don't believe I have commented at all on the Ferguson thing - in this or any other thread. So...?

    Not that I've seen in this thread.

    It's a wonder that I can reply to your posts without reading them, don't you think?

    I'm not sure whether that is a generic "you" there, or a specific one directed at me.

    At this point, I'm not sure what you're actually talking about. There's a chance that I agree with you on this point, but that may depend on my particular interpretation since your point hasn't actually been fleshed out.

    Not really. It seems you have failed to communicate your message to me - whatever it is - and that's your failure not mine. You can't really expect me to search through all your posts and try to cobble together from fragments what your point of view might be. Either you tell me or you don't. I'm not that interested in you.

    It looks like that change went through prior to your suggestion.

    And you're right - I disagree with Aristotle on many matters, as it happens. It's not a bad quote though - even if he didn't write/say it.
     
    Bells likes this.
  18. The Marquis Only want the best for Nigel Valued Senior Member

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    Just "like" Iceauras post, James.

    It would be easier for all of us, and quite demonstrative of your attitude.
     
    joepistole likes this.
  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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  20. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I take it you are not familiar with automatic weapons and gravity. Because if you were, you would understand how a shell casing could be 7 feet away from the shooter. The facts are the physical evidence doesn't support those who testified against Wilson and who have subsequently changed their testimonies in an attempt to conform to the physical evidence. Whereas the testimonies which support Wilson's account have been consistent and steadfast. Further, there is nothing materially wrong with the physical evidence. You and those who share your beliefs have absolutely NO credible evidence to support even a shred of our contentions.
     
  21. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    And the same is true of right-wingers. It’s kind of funny to see right-wingers complain about left-wingers for doing the exact same thing, using the exact same illogical arguments they use. You cannot see it when you do it the exact same things. But you are quick to point it out when the other guy, the liberal, does it.
    Yeah, funny how that happened, Bells and her ilk don’t want to talk about that. Gee, I wonder why. They would much rather repeat their falsehoods ad nauseum and ignore all the many inconvenient facts and evidence. Bells and folks like her tried and convicted Wilson long before the evidence had been collected. All they needed, all they wanted, was a kangaroo court and an execution. But the truth and the evidence got in their way.
    Well, it isn’t only liberals who do this same kind of stuff. Right wingers do it all the time and far more often than liberals. Just listen to Fox News or any of the Republican entertainment which pollute the airwaves daily with falsehoods, fallacious arguments and deceptions…the exact same stuff “liberals” have done with this incident. I just wish you could apply the same clarity of thought you apply to liberals to yourself and your fellow right-wingers.

    If left-wingers and right-wingers could check their biases at the door and apply the same scrutiny they apply to the other to themselves , this world would be a much better place.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2015
  22. Bells Staff Member

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    Wrong thread Joe.
     
  23. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, and why would that be? Is the topic of this thread not, "Ferguson Verdict and Liberalism"?
     

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