First Transracial Senator?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Capracus, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    That depends.
    And the term "native American" is your contribution.
    Warren would be a better example of that than your posts here.
    Aside from that one form, we have no evidence of her ever "identifying" herself as racially red. And that form came with instructions, which she apparently followed. So her "judgment" was not at the center of whatever seems oblivious about that form.
    And it wasn't a "legend". It was her apparently accurate family history.
    I agree - she seems uneasily misfit for executive tasks. But definitely not because of this. And she seems valuable - very valuable - in her role as legislator and public analyst.
     
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  3. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    That is what they call it.
    It's the form that proves her delusion.
     
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    They? They aren't here.
    She suffers from no visible delusions in the matter.
    Unlike her critics.
     
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  7. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    30,994
    Btw:
    I don't think House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy suffers from delusions about his inlaws, either:
    https://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-na-pol-mccarthy-contracts-20181014-story.html
     
  8. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,635
    Per US government standards it does, at least when it comes to reporting one's race.
    Odd, then, that you are making such a big deal about race.

    Warren has some American Indian DNA. Per government standards at the time she filled out the form, she is therefore Native American. You can disagree with the government's definition; that's fine. But it sounds like you are disagreeing with HER, which isn't.
     
  9. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    She used to think she was a Cherokee.
    Oh good, we are trusting the feds on this question.
    It happens, like when someone wears blackface or thinks a drop of native blood makes you a native. She flubbed this whole issue in more ways than one.And she wouldn't have apologized if she thought she did nothing wrong. Good way to start your campaign.

    I can only hope that Trump's racist taunts actually help her. If she's the nominee, I will vote for her, but I hope she isn't.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  10. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,447
    i get a sense you intimate that she knowingly lied to seek an advantage.

    yet that is clearly not the case.
    Liz did not lie

    the assertion of her being a liar is the republican political (strategists) seeking to increase racial hatred to win the next election.

    they know if they can turn US society into a virtual state of racial civil war then all the South American and African American voters will not vote.
    this will hand a walk over victory to the alt-right.

    same game plan as last election. it worked !

    they are playing the "every one else is just as croked as the current administration" game
    and the USA sheople are likely to believe it because it panders to an existing narrative of all power is corrupt so lets have the least worst of the bad... which equals nothing new, dont change anything
    change is fear
    change is bad
    change is evil commy hippie reds under the bed so dont poke the bully because he may be about to give me some free money.

    the optics look bad
    but the driving force that runs the party and the difference in the administration is different.
    but the cult-of-personalaties that the alt-right want to turn the whole free democratic world into a shop of horrors to the highest bidder is their game...


    what happened to all the public works trump spent months saying he would do ?

    meanwhile entire neighborhoods are exploding from old gas pipe lines and houses are blowing up.

    but the sheople usa are told to not question authority and mind your own business unless you want the school bully to give you a beating.

    (i agree the administration is the ones who you should vote for unless Hitler is their nominee)
     
  11. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    54,036
    Knowing or unknowing, I don't know which would be worse.
    Trump being evil is not an excuse.
     
  12. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,447
    lol

    there is another side to the debate which i have talked about with people from different cultural backgrounds.
    that is the moral ethics of having a question like that on application forms.
    and... consequently the disclosure of that information.

    surely, the majority of the debate should contain the question "why must someone declare a racial bias of personal association to an application form for something that should have no discrimination ?"

    having the luxury of knowing people from many different backgrounds i have also had opportunity to hear them joke about the idea of putting in random responses to such questions because tyey oppose them on moral grounds by defining that as a discriminatory question which should have no place in the process.

    underneath it all there is the desire to fill representation of minority groups into a true democracy so it is an actual democracy.
    though, that debate about quote concepts as a form of dividing people to make a grab for power is still held to be a legitimate form of moral position by some poorly educated people(or those wishing to tilt the table in any direction to give themselves an advantage)

    soo...
    is the question morally correct ? (probably not by the sounds of the responses to suggesting it must be answered as a forced label)
    was the question a legal question ?(probably not)
    is the question legitimate ? (probably)
    is there an incorrect answer ? (no)
    is there an illegal answer ? (no)
     
  13. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Yes. I believe in affirmative action. If she is truly a tribal member, that should count as a positive factor in her employment. But she also wrote this about herself in a cookbook.
     
  14. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    21,635
    When did she claim that?
    ?? Who said anything about "trusting the feds?"
    When did she say that?
     
  15. RainbowSingularity Valued Senior Member

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    7,447
    ?
    is this the same conversation as "cultural appropriation" ?
    the foot prints of this subject lead all the way through the republican party and along the way laugh in the face of copy wright infringement laws which is making a joke of corporate privacy.

    if the ethereal theme is dishonesty then the conversation has already finished when the republican party continued to use music from artists who told them no.

    you cant have a logical debate about honesty when you assign the ability of one side to normalize as being not culpable to the same moral guide(note guide not law as moral laws are mostly religious[facist dictators] fanaticism).
    which is the flip side of your comment about "evilness"

    what is the opposite to "evilness" ?(realm of false debate tactics issues)

    who do you think was paying for the spying on Liz Warren to get those details and information ?

    is it legal to pay someone to spy on your political rivals in the usa ?

    this is probably why i just saw the word "socialist" get thrown out in the media again.
    trying to legitimize something that is purely un-american and a nixon era no-no.

    as an ongoing over arching theme, if the conversation dwells around the idea of cultural appropriation for personal gain then the question eventually gets asked...
    "does the supreme court have equal opportunity law written is an affirmative action policy and how is that shown to be working?"
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    Says who?
    No evidence of that afaik.
    Once again your obliviousness to the distinctions between Tribe, race, culture, and ancestry, leads you into the weeds.
    It did not happen with Warren, as far as anything we've seen here.
    She did not apologize for any of this you are posting about her.
    You talking to you?
     
  17. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    54,036
  18. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    The press.
    In the United States, affirmative action in employment and education has been the subject of legal and political controversy; in 2003, a pair of decisions by the Supreme Court of the United States (Grutter v. Bollinger and Gratz v. Bollinger) permitted educational institutions to consider race as a factor when admitting students while prohibiting the use of quotas.

    Wikipedia
     
  19. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    37,884
    The optics look bad because American society is generally racist and, historically, white supremacist in particular. The optics for our society and culture look bad in the context that we would even legitimize Trump and his supremacist base.

    Then again, Americans went and elected him. There is a spectacle that sometimes seems funny, when Trump supporters try to pretend they aren't: They don't support Trump but .... Or, perhaps, they're not white supremacist, but ....

    In the end, optics like Warren's only look bad because they are what the market is determined to look at, and has already judged them bad regardless of what they are.

    Americans do this over and over and over again, which is why it' can seem puzzling when people pretend confusion about being called out over their racism. Except it's not really puzzling; they're just behaving like supremacists.

    And the only reason they can get away with it is empowered people who will let them.
     
  20. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    She did not.

    Read your own latest link, finding for us the passage where Warren claims to be Cherokee, herself. Or "native American". Or a member of any Tribe. Or anything else other than what has been pretty well established is an accurate claim of hers and a physical fact: she has a recent racially red ancestor, probably of Cherokee cultural heritage, of some significance to her family and its family history.

    Or leave off this rancid line of twaddle.
    "Knowing or unknowing, I don't know which would be worse."
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  21. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    21,635
    Maybe you should read your own links before using them. She does not claim to be Cherokee. She claims to have recipes passed down through her family, some of which were Native American. And since she does have a Native American ancestor, that makes sense.

    If a guy named John O'Brien opened an Irish pub, and claimed to have authentic Irish stew - but only had a single distant ancestor as Irish - would you attack him with the same level of indignation?
     
  22. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    54,036
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    30,994
    That identified the Tribal and family heritage of the food, not the Tribe or race of the cook, you idiot.
    - - - -
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...5aefee44&noredirect=on&utm_term=.b85f2bd130e2
     

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