For Genesis Deluge Doubters

I can't find the citation, but the point is that there's plenty of water down there to have produced the water to double a mile deep pre Deluge world ocean, which when doubled represents 20% (estimated) of the water which remains down there.

And the world ocean today is about 1/5th of the thickness of the oceanic crust, which produced the steam to form the water, when the lava flowed through the midoceanic ridges during the runaway plate tectonics of the Deluge.

I'll keep trying to find the citation.

 

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I’m sure you will…

I think the point actually IS that you have in no way demonstrated any release mechanisms for this contained water, other than “i.e. Deluge”, and furthermore no mechanism for the disappearance of it either! As I asked earlier do you have ANY evidence at all as to the change over time in this “water below”? Or is it just another highly improbable claim based on honest scientific research?

 

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Most mainstream scientists say that the world ocean was formed by the degassing (steam) from the mantle, so you'll have to take it up with them too.

 

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The flaw in this argument is, IF this is the mechanism you are claiming as causing the deluge, why isn’t it still happening today? What caused it to cease? And, where did all that extra deluge water go?

BTW we’re not discussing how the oceans originally formed but where your magical flood waters came from…

 

Read Baumgardner's paper on runaway plate tectonics.

 

http://libertyparkusafd.org/lp/Paley/Reports/catastrophic plate tectonics.pdf

Is this the one you mean? Don't worry I will. I have to go do some real work now but rest assured I'll be back later...

 

Why don't you summarize the main points you got out of the article, IAC.

 

No, you must read it.

 

How much magama would have to come out to release water to cover all the mountains?

3x as much water in the mantle as in the mantle is NOTHING. As you say, skin of an apple. The density of water down there is microscopic compared to, say, a puddle. I imagine that, if the magma for some reason came to the surface to deposit water, the sheer quantity of magma needed for such a phenomenon would actually fill in an ocean.

 

Did Adam have a belly button?
Does God?

 

Initial impressions? Technically poor. John Baumgardner fails to keep up the scientific tradition of writing in both the passive voice, and the third person. Something which I, (and I am sure many others) learnt in Secondary School.

For example, “I report, I describe, results I have reported” etc.

I also find that the use of such unfortunate phrases as: “…in an almost periodic fashion…”, “…to me it is not unreasonable…”, “I personally prefer…”, “In my opinion…”, “…indicated most certainly..”, and (my personal favourite), “…I believe this almost certainly…” detract from any scientific credibility which this “paper” might possess.

In addition, a few general observations lead me to distrust the objectivity of the author. Primarily the fact that the “paper” was presented to an International Conference on Creationism, and that it has been made widely available through a website with an obvious Creationist agenda. It would appear to be of the same ilk as climate research sponsored by oil companies… not quite reliable.

Now, as for specific problems:

“…the temperature within the the layer can increase without limit…” pg1. I find this statement highly dubious, and suspect that it is contrary to the laws of thermodynamics.

With reference to the criteria for his 3D model, “When both sides are ocean, symmetric removal of plate is enforced.” pg6. This is simply unrealistic. Where two oceanic plate margins meet it is the fastest moving plate that is subducted.

“In particular, it should be emphasized that the initial condition used for the calculation does not represent an initial state for the pre-Flood Earth.” pg 6. How in the name of any deity you choose to mention can this model then be subsequently applied to the Earth to illustrate a flooding mechanism? The answer is, it can’t be.

“So I have chosen, for purposes of this illustrative calculation, to begin from a state for which we have at least a few reliable constraints in order to obtain at the end a result that somewhat resembles today’s world.” Pg 9. In other words the model has been reverse engineered, with Baumgardner including or excluding specific variables in order to obtain the results he requires.


In summary I find Baumgardner’s offering too simplistic. For example, all of his models (as ascertained from the “paper”), are based on shear strengths of one mineral, (Olivine) of one grain size, (1mm). How can that possibly be extrapolated for a planet with a crust consisting of many hundreds of minerals, with thousands of grain sizes?

IAC, I have no problem with non-conventional plate tectonics, after all Einstein himself advocated wholesale “Crustal Displacement”. I do however find that this paper falls short in so many respects as to be laughable… and yet you offer it as some kind of evidence!?

C’mon IAC, get with the program!

 

He was just a scientist at Los Alamos for many years, were you ever a scientist at Los Alamos Benauld?

 

Can anyone answer me?

 

I knew you had a lame rap Benauld when you started with critiquing his writing style, how desperate!

 

Hey, I call 'em as I see 'em Icey baby! I think it's crap! Writing style and all...

 

Besides I can't criticise now? You hypocrite!

 

Yeah? Probably a lab technician... or a janitor.

 

Bet you a zillion dollars.

 

You bet me what? That the temperature in a layer of rock can increase without limit?

 

IAC, I can name you thousands of scientists in the form of geologists, paleontologists, paleobiologists, zoologists, archeologists, etc. which graduated from esteemed schools with esteemed degrees who disagree completely with your GFM. What's your point?

Just because there are about 20 scientists in the entire world who support your theory doesn't mean that they are right. LOL.