For God so hated the world

Okinrus,

Welcome to sciforums,

This is a direct appeal to human emotionalism. The terms ‘love’ and ‘gave his ONLY son’ directly pull at the heart strings and are intended to generate sympathy as if it is a human that is giving up an only and beloved son. But God does not give anything. He knows the son is not going anywhere and he knows that he is going to be resurrected; there is no loss as would be experienced by a human when making such a sacrifice. This is an empty and meaningless gesture.

Again this is an appeal to emotionalism and a hidden implication that anyone who doesn’t accept him is heartless.

This is just rather transparent propaganda. The implication is that if you don’t believe in God then you must be bad.

This is the essential nature and evil of Christianity. The statement underlies the intolerance and bigotry of a religion that brands everyone else as bad if they do not accept Christian beliefs.

 

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That would have to be one of the most incorrect things I've ever seen on any message board.

Most atheists, like any other people are good. It's only a few that are not "good" so to speak that cause problems for society.

So the Christian Jeffery Dahmer believed in good?

Did Mark Chapman believe in good when he murdered John Lennon?

 

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Which is why Jesus said that not everyone
who calls him Lord will go to heaven but only
those who do the will of God.

This was not my implication. Just about all of
mankind has a seed of faith or no one would do
any good. By goodness I do not mean works
only for praise but works for love.

God tested Abraham to make the same sacrafice. Since
Jesus was God, God gave up his own body and blood and
truely did experience human pain. The pain was inflicted by those who did recieve his love and so betrayed him.

No but if you do not believe in doing good and do not
hold that having goodness is more important than
selfish desires then you will do evil. You are judging
fundamentalism but not the entire Christian faith.
Jesus himself said that we should not
judge others or condemn others.

 

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Jewish Infuence in America

Jews are only three percent of the nation's population and comprise eleven percent of what this study defines as the nation's elite. However, Jews constitute more than 25 percent of the elite journalists and publishers, more than 17 percent of the leaders of important voluntary and public interest organizations, and more than 15 percent of the top ranking civil servants.

Stephen Steinlight, former Director of National Affairs of the American Jewish Committee, similarly notes the "disproportionate political power" of Jews, which is "pound for pound the greatest of any ethnic/cultural group in America."

During the last three decades Jews [in the United States] have made up 50 percent of the top two hundred intellectuals ... 20 percent of professors at the leading universities ... 40 percent of partners in the leading law firms in New York and Washington ... 59 percent of the directors, writers, and producers of the 50 top-grossing motion pictures from 1965 to 1982, and 58 percent of directors, writers, and producers in two or more primetime television series.

Since the 1960s, Jews have come to wield considerable influence in American economic, cultural, intellectual and political life. Jews played a central role in American finance during the 1980s, and they were among the chief beneficiaries of that decade's corporate mergers and reorganizations. Today, though barely two percent of the nation's population is Jewish, close to half its billionaires are Jews. The chief executive officers of the three major television networks and the four largest film studios are Jews, as are the owners of the nation's largest newspaper chain and the most influential single newspaper, the New York Times ... The role and influence of Jews in American politics is equally marked .

Explains a lot about Americas interest in Israel doesn't it?

 

Question ...

Did you get your facts from this website?

A Look at the 'Powerful Jewish Lobby'

 

Re: Question ...

Yeah, sure did buddy, and lots more information of such is in abundance around the net. I think it explains a lot about Americas interest in Israel doesn't it?

You see, when Isreal was demanded to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza, the security council used words very similar to those that demanded Iraq's withdrawal from Kuwait in 1990.

When Iraq did not comply, it was attacked by an American-led coalition and Kuwait was liberated.

When Isreal has not complied, it has recieved increased economic and military support from America.

I think America should give the Jews a new state , lets say NY ?

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How about it??

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Institute for Historical Review

"The Institute for Historical Review (IHR) is an organization founded in the 1970s dedicated to holocaust revisionism. It has been accused of links to Neo-Nazi organizations. It publishes the Journal of Historical Review, which however is widely viewed as pseudo-scientific. When Noam Chomsky published in the journal it led to great controversy."

Source: Wikipedia

 

Okinrus,

Seed of faith in what? Do you mean faith in the Christian god? Note that only one third of the world is considered Christian oriented, and that is far from the whole of mankind.

But you are saying that to do good one must have a religious faith. That feels like you do not have a comprehension of rational morality.

But then one doesn’t need to believe in gods to achieve that. I can argue that to do ‘good’ is in the interests of everyone not just myself. I.e. I will do ‘good’ because I have reasoned that there is an inherent value to being good. This is rational morality. The Christian does good because he is told to do good with the expectation of a reward in heaven.

Not only is religious faith unnecessary for true morality but it is inherently dishonest and hypocritical.

This is not the same thing. In the Christian resurrection myth it is Jesus who sacrifices himself.

People experience pain and death daily and in far more significant degree. What is so special about someone who is immortal and infinite experiencing momentary pain? Compare that to someone who only lives for a few decades and has been suffering from painful terminal cancer for months.

The way the gospels tell the myth it is obvious that the crucifixion was politically engineered by a few zealots. What would have happened if there had been a modern justice system in place controlled by a true democracy? And what if the majority of people had been told his real nature and all the issues involved, would he then have been killed under such circumstances.

No, John 3:16 and the entire resurrection myth has no real credibility or honesty when studied objectively.

That doesn’t necessarily follow, one might be simply indifferent. The inaction to do ‘good’ is not necessarily an evil action. An evil action is a positive action to be destructive.

But really there are no actions are not motivated by personal reward. Even those who apparently do good deeds at seemingly some cost to themselves (i.e. altruism) do so because it makes them feel good about themselves. Doing good because your religion tells you to is probably the worst reason to do good since it removes personal choice and integrity.

That message is fine but it contradicts other parts of the bible, and when the whole bible is considered the word of God then how is a Christian meant to decide what to follow?

 

Re: Institute for Historical Review

Ok, explain the rest:-

You see, when Isreal was demanded to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza, the security council used words very similar to those that demanded Iraq's withdrawal from Kuwait in 1990.

When Iraq did not comply, it was attacked by an American-led coalition and Kuwait was liberated.

When Isreal has not complied, it has recieved increased economic and military support from America.

THIS HAS GOT TO BE THROUGH JEWISH INFLUENCE IN AMERICAN POLITICS, WHY ELSE WOULD USA BE SO PRO-ISRAEL???

 

Faith is having the kingdom of God within you and
is not irrational belief. Wether you call God Allah or Jesus should
matter here. When I say good, I mean true goodness.
Not the good that the Pharisees did which was
only for the praise of others.

This is untrue, Jesus said that a good servent does not
expect any reward. Will an athiest lay down his life
to do good? Jesus gives the example of a poor woman
giving two coins that was all she had to live on. Can
she do this without expecting that God will feed her?

Jesus had been betrayed by those he loved. Christians
believe that he was expierencing pain of all of our sins
on the cross.

However Abraham says to Issac "God hiimself will
provide the sheep for the holocaust". Abraham
also knew that his only son was going to heaven.

I consider the inaction to do good to be sloth and evil.

There have been lynchings even in a modern societies justice
system. They were told his true nature and it was his
true nature that offended them.

Which is why only God is good. Also people can do good because
there very nature is good and so their actions are just
a manifestation of this.

The bible does not say that it is the complete word of God and
the books were not constructed into the complete bible
until 325AD. There are sections of praise to God that
were written by man. Jesus says to judge what is wrong but not to judge others. Society of course as to judge in order
to maintain order but never do we judge who is going
to hell and who isn't.

 

If those statistics are true, then Jews do indeed have a considerable "pound for pound" influence on politics. But the percentages you gave still leave a lot of room for Xian influence, considering that over three quarters of the US identify themselves as Xian.

Also, those who identify themselves as Jewish may not be primarily influenced by that religion. As you indicated, secular influences will likely prevail for most.

 

The rest is politics and off topic for this forum.

 

okinrus-

The "good servant" does indeed expect retribution for their acts........ admittance to heaven.

 

It's not through acts alone that you are admitted into heaven. You have to have true faith, and your acts are not supposed to be inteded for heaven, but for the better of another person.

 

Agent Smith-

Wheres the benefit to spark one's action if they didnt strive for a place in heaven? Helping another being is fine, but without some reward behind the action of helping others, it would hold no reason to be accomplished. It would seem "meaningless" because it has no true purpose for the self. Everyone has an agenda, without personal consequences there is no desire to act in accordance with your said beliefs. You need some kind of stimulus to act in a certain manner. Actions are inherently linked with consequences.

 

These unselfish acts of helping others is found on the true path of Christianity. It is a way of life to do good, God wants all believers to follow this path.

This kind of stimulus to act in a certain manner is called Faith. A faith so strong and beyond all doubt that the only way to heaven is the belief in Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit.

 

The stimulus is not faith. A stimulus is more or less a reason, or a motivation to act.Faith would be a tool for action, but not the reason for action. A stimulus gets one to act, faith would give them reassurance that the action was not in vain.

Faith in itself, is not a sufficient reason for action. It is the means, not the end.

 

Having faith is not something that I would expect a non-believer to understand. Having faith is something that is believed in beyond all doubt, and that is stimulus enough for any true Christian to follow by example through the words of Jesus. Unless faith is experienced, I doubt it will be understood.

 

No. Naturally if you want to be with God then you
will be with God eternally. Likewise if you
do not want to be with God then you will
not be with God eternally. God is a reward
unto himself.

Faith is when God's spirit is
within us. This is why most of mankind
has some faith unless they have reject him and all good
completely. Paul says that "No one can say Jesus is Lord without
the Holy Spirit". Since our Lord desires us
to do good and will tell us to do good within us
then all we are doing is saying yes to our master.

 

I figured I'd address it, since it is how religion affects politics. As such, I think it still has some relevance here. Plus, I don't like to leave things unanswered.

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