For the alternative theorists:

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by paddoboy, Apr 2, 2014.

  1. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    well, let's just say i have lost faith in what i thought i knew.
    learn what?
    how evolution happens?
    nobody knows.
    next.
    uhhhhhhh . . . maybe.
    i find it ludicrous to state "things become alive".
    oh my, james.
    so this somehow corrects the fossil record?
    i'm sure biology HAS progressed, see above.
    "science" would have corrected itself.
    see my response to trippy concerning this.
    / takes a deep breath.
    yes?
    shut up dweeb.
    i try to.
    what is it with you james?
    do you have a boner for religion or something?
    must have.
    i don't know, it's the first time i've heard of it.
    none.
    none in chemistry either, not even high school.
    eat that.
    i don't know.
    i don't know
    if the proposed mechanism is true, then yes.
    just this one.
    unfortunately the facts aren't cooperating.
     
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  3. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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    God?
     
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  5. Grumpy Curmudgeon of Lucidity Valued Senior Member

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    leopold

    Then how can you claim to know any of it is in error, when you obviously know nothing about it? I wouldn't suggest taking the same stance on any brain surgery you need to have.

    Only the foolish are certain, the wise are full of doubt.

    Or, to put it another way...

    It is wiser to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt.

    Grumpy

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  7. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    No. I assume he's referring to what he had learned about evolution earlier in his life.

    The problem I have with the Abrahamic creation myth as an alternative to abiogenesis is that it has even more weaknesses. The whole point of coming up with an alternative to a well-respected hypothesis is that the alternative fills in some of the gaps and gives answers to some of the unanswered questions.

    The creation myth doesn't do that. All the Abrahamists can tell us is that "God did it." He created the firmament. He created the earth. He created all the plants and animals--and presumably the other four kinds of living things too: fungi, algae, bacteria and archaea; even though they're not mentioned in the Bible. He created man and then woman.

    Well shit, that really answers all of our questions, doesn't it.

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    I just can't understand how people can be so content with their ignorance that they find an explanation like that to be satisfactory.

    Religion is based on ignorance, and it perpetuates ignorance.

    There are so many new ideas whittling away at the mysteries of abiogenesis that it's not hard to be patient and have reasonable hope that somebody will finally figure it out 30-40 years from now. I'll be dead, but many of you younger people will still be alive to peer-review it.

    But for the "God" hypothesis, there have been no new discoveries to strengthen it since it was first elaborated in the Bronze Age!

    Is is really okay for people to settle for superstitions from an era when it was assumed that the sun revolved around the earth and nobody knew bacteria existed, in an age when we're launching spacecraft out of our own solar system and antibiotic-resistant bacteria kill 30,000 Americans every year?

    The basic flaw in the God hypothesis is the fallacy of recursion.
    • God created the universe.
    • The universe is: everything that exists.
    • God obviously exists, if he has actually performed all the feats credited to him.
    • Therefore God is part of the universe.
    • Therefore God created himself.
    • *BEEP* *FALLACY WARNING* *BEEP*
     
  8. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,534
    Wow!!
    He's off at it again.

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    It's obvious your loose knowledge of the English language, and what you have said, supports my position.
    But then knowing you, I know that is rather peculiar and rare.

    Let's just say once again, right up front, [which it appears you are unable to be] that Evolution is a near fact, and Abiogenesis, or life from non life is the only logical scientific explanation.
    Forgetting the non scientific myth of a deity and creationism.

    If you can invalidate any of that, be my guest...up front.
     
  9. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,534
    Exactly. I alluded to that in a previous post.
    But that's what we have come to expect from our God botherer friends and their supporters.
     
  10. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,534

    How? I'm not sure, but it happened, and continues to happen.





    Again, just plain old chemical reactions.
    We are all star stuff.
     
  11. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,534

    He also completley ignores the scientific methodology and peer review process.
    Worth noting also that your very obviously biased opinion, has lead you to ignore the fact that we do have scientific theories, that have stood the test of time, so to speak, and are really as close to fact as one would wish.
    Let me show you.
    What will happen if you jump up in the air? [hint Newton's gravity]
    Do you at all doubt what will happen?
    The same holds true that the BB being overwhelmingly supported, and if accepted, [as most accept it] then one cannot get away from the fact that Abiogenesis and evolution must then be accepted as factual.
    Of course dmoe, the details are another thing.
     
  12. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,534


    Nicely done.
    I would though suggest that the myth goes way back before the bronze age. Maybe the day after we climbed down out of the trees!
    Again, well said.
     
  13. Motor Daddy Valued Senior Member

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  14. Trippy ALEA IACTA EST Staff Member

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    You're wasting my time. Tell me, what standard of proof do you think a journal has to have before it will publish errata or a retraction?

    Appeal to authority, it was written by someone acting as a journalist writing a news article. I've presented you with the evidence of a specialist from a specialist magazine, and still you persist with this.

    Yeah - they haven't been asked to.

    And a less sensational report of the same event wouldn't?

    No it isn't, it's based on a logical fallacy and it's fundamentally flawed. At this moment, the only thing you have left is "Why didn't this well respected journal publish a retraction or errata for this article others are claiming is inaccurate?"

    Where do I start?

    No, that's not what I said either.

    And here we go with the conspiracy theories again.

    I've atteneded these kinds of conferences, have you?

    Right, and I provided you with extracts from a paper that appears to contradict your assertions, written by a scientist that attended the conference, who specializes in paleontology and evolution, who had it published in another respectable journal.

    You were.

    That makes no sense what so ever as a response to what I said.

    What magnitude? The worst that has happened is that one of their news editors misattributed a quote. On the scale of things that can go wrong for a magazine of any kind, that's fairly minor, and the only reason it's an issue in the first place is because of creationists presenting it out of context.
     
  15. dumbest man on earth Real Eyes Realize Real Lies Valued Senior Member

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    3,522
    paddoboy...apply a little Objective Observation just one time...please?

    paddoboy, you have firmly established that anything that I Post on this Forum you will :
    1.) - ignore...
    2.) - reject by claiming it to be part of some "Fantasy Agenda" of your creation...
    3.) - reject by claiming it to be "Pedant" or "Pedantic"...
    4.) - reject by claiming it to be "Alternative" or "Supporting Alternative"...
    5.) - reject by claiming it to be "Theist"...
    6.) - reject by claiming it to be "Sourced from someone or somewhere that you deem unacceptable"...
    7.) - reject by claiming it to be the result of "Tall Poppy Syndrome" or "Delusions of Grandeur"...
    8.) - reject by "Assuming" or "Presuming" or "Inferring" or "Mis-Characterizing" or...
    etc., etc., etc...
    I could go on and on with the...whatever it is that you obviously find somehow...satisfying...or...enjoyable...or...???!!!
    At any rate - anything I say - you basically turn "backwards"!

    So...I thought just maybe you could achieve better comprehension and better understanding if...

    ".yroeht cifitneics ot sdrager htiw foorp %001 on si erehT"
     
  16. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    27,534

    The point is that I'm not the only one that has made those claims.

    With regards to your comment, again perhaps if you were upfront, told people what you really meant, not ignore pertinent facts, that as scientific theories mature in the test of time, they become more and more certain.
    Again, what happens when you jump up in the air [hint Newtonian gravity]

    But we are getting off topic in this excellent thread dmoe, and it shouldn't degenerate into a "you and me"contest.
     
  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    27,534
    I should obviously have added to that with the fact, that God or the divine creator myth, is not a scientific deduction and so can never really be any logical alternative..
     
  18. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    17,455
    where oh where did i say i didn't know anything about chemistry?
    exactly.
    yeah, i think i heard that before.
     
  19. Grumpy Curmudgeon of Lucidity Valued Senior Member

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    leopold

    Often, no doubt.

    Grumpy

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  20. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Actually we have footage of an Alpha chimp aggressively protecting his troup from that unseen enemy (a monsoon storm) in the sky who makes loud noises and bright lights and throws water at him, all of which makes him very scared (and angry).
     
  21. leopold Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    17,455
    i fail to see the conection
    what i stated was a fact.
    i can't help what you took it to mean.
    explain to me how i appear biased.
     
  22. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    NOTE FROM A MODERATOR

    LEOPOLD & GRUMPY:


    Please discuss the TOPIC OF THIS THREAD, not your PERSONALITIES.

    You may find this hard to believe, but NOBODY cares what you think of each other.
     
  23. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    I guess I am stupid then.
     

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