Free Electricity From Earth Rotation

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by ghost7584, Jan 25, 2005.

  1. ghost7584 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    374
    Free electricity from the Earth rotating through its own magnetic field using the homopolar generator effect.

    The homopolar generator has a conducting disc rotating along with an axially
    mounted cylinder magnet; the disc is cemented near the pole of the magnet.
    Rotating through the magnetic field, a potential difference is between the
    center of the disc and its rim. Brushes pick up voltage here.
    The truly unique invention made December 26, 1831 consisted of the discovery
    that the magnet and disc could be cemented together, rotated jointly, and
    the same voltage could be obtained by sliding contacts touching the centre
    and edge of the conducting disc as was obtained when the magnet was fixed
    and the disc rotated alone.
    [By cementing a copper disc on top of a cylinder magnet, and rotating the magnet and disc together, Faraday created an electrical potential. After pondering this phenomenon for many years, he concluded that when a magnet is rotated, its magnetic field remains stationary. Thus, he reasoned, the metal of the magnet moves through its own field, and the relative motion is translated into electrical potential.
    Faraday's experiments led him to the revolutionary conclusion that a magnetic field is a property of space itself, not something attached to the magnet, which merely serves to induce or evoke the field.]
    The Earth is doing essentially the same thing; it rotates through its own
    magnetic field. The rotating Earth is therefore a big homopolar generator. However, any circuit contacts used to pick up voltage potential difference on the Earth, would be rotating along with the Earth. So sliding contacts or brushes would not be needed, and also, a rotating conductive disk would not be needed. All that would be needed is conductive cables. Emf is generated in a conductor which is perpendicular to the flux lines and velocity. Near the magnetic poles of the Earth the flux lines are pointed upward, and the rotation of the Earth would carry the conductive cables in a west to East motion as the Earth rotates through its own magnetic field. So, just like there is a charge separation in faraday’s rotating disc from the center of the disc to its rim, on the rotating Earth there would be a charge separation from the Earth’s north magnetic pole to the end of any conductive cable that is positioned running southward.
    There is a fundamental problem with picking up potential difference voltage on the Earth:
    Sliding contacts were needed, brushes, with the rotating Faraday generator
    because the wiring does not rotate with it.
    When the wiring *does* rotate, you get an equal and opposite
    EMF induced in it. Result - no current.
    In the case with the rotating Earth, this would be true if the potential difference is picked up between both ends of the cable, and the result would be no current. You can overcome this problem by picking up an electrical potential between only one end of the cable (the end away from the magnetic pole), and a ground wire positioned near this end. In this case there would be no opposite EMF and you would get a direct current.
    So here is the wiring set-up that I think would work to get electricity from the Earth’s rotation through its own magnetic field:
    Run cables from the magnetic north pole going like spokes in a wheel with one end of the spokes at the pole. The cables are run over ground that is an insulator or poor conductor. There would be a separation of charge in the conductive cables and not in the ground under the cables. There should be a potential difference voltage between the other ends of the cables, that are southward, and ground wires near those ends. A constant current should be produced between the cable ends and the ground wires as the Earth rotates through its own magnetic field. Direct current motors could be set up and attached to the ground wires and the cable ends. These motors turn Alternating Current generators, and the AC that is produced is stepped up to high voltage by transformers and then fed into high voltage power lines for distribution to the cities.
    These are the two important aspects that would make this work:
    [This should work without sliding contacts because you are taking voltage from only one end of the cable and are not taking it from both ends, so there should be no back EMF voltage to interfere with it. There would be separtaion of charge in the cables, and no separation of charge in the ground, so you should have a potential difference voltage between the cable ends and the ground wires.]
    This whole thing could be set up at the south magnetic pole.
    There are also other considerations. Because this is done in a cold climate, near the poles, there would be less resistence in the cables. Also, large diameter cables could be used to decrease resistence.
    Experiments could be done on different lengths of cable to find out how long it needs to be to get any useful current and how long the cable should be to get the maximum current. Also, if large voltage is acquired then the direct current motors could be the type that run on large voltage. If only small voltage and large amperage is acquired, then the direct current motors could be of a type that run on large amperage and low voltage – depending on how the motor coils are wrapped in the motor.
    Also the homopolar generator is much more efficient than an induction coil and the magnetic field of the Earth should be stronger near the poles. The magnetic poles and the geographic poles are not the same, but they are probably close enough that this would not matter much. Also the lay out of the cables could be adjusted to take advantage of this and still produce useful electricity.

    This is very similar to the Nasa Tether Experiment and should work in the same way using air for the return current instead of the ionosphere which provided the return flow in the tether experiment. It would probably look like corona discharge at the polar ends of the cables.
    Nasa Tether Experiment: Read about it at this website.
    http://www-istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/wtether.html
     
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  3. ghost7584 Registered Senior Member

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    This theory of producing electricity from the Earth rotating through its own magnetic field, using cables laid out like spokes in a wheel near the magnetic poles, would probably work to produce electricity in any place that the auroras can be seen. The reason that the auroras happen is because the Earth's magnetic field lines are pointing upward and out of the Earth in these areas, and strong enough to cause the aurora light.
    Standard high voltage cable would provide far greater amperage than the thin tether that nasa used, and so more power. The tether experiment got 3500 volts with a tether, 12.5 miles long. The magnetic field that the tether was dragged through was probably a lot weaker than the magnetic field at the surface of the Earth near the poles.
     
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  5. Vern Registered Senior Member

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    695
    This would probably generate some current; we'd need to experiment to see if there could be a useful amount. There are thousands of miles of conductors running north-south such as telephone wires etc. We see fluctuations on these, but not enough current to be very useful.
     
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  7. ghost7584 Registered Senior Member

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    Vern
    There are thousands of miles of conductors running north-south such as telephone wires etc. We see fluctuations on these, but not enough current to be very useful.

    Those conductors running north-south, such as telephone wires, etc., are connected in circuits. Circuits will not work in this case. It must be single cables. A circuit or loop will produce a back current at the back end of the circuit that will cancel out any current on the front end, producing no net current. So that is probably why there is nothing bigger than fluctuations in those.
    The Nasa tether experiment used a single cable:
    The space tether experiment, a joint venture of the US and Italy, called for a scientific payload--a large, spherical satellite--to be deployed from the US space shuttle at the end of a conducting cable (tether) 20 km (12.5 miles) long. The idea was to let the shuttle drag the tether across the Earth's magnetic field, producing one part of a dynamo circuit. The return current, from the shuttle to the payload, would flow in the Earth's ionosphere, which also conducted electricity, even though not as well as the wire.

    The generation of electricity from the high voltage power cables laid out like spokes in a wheel near the poles, depends on each cable being a separate length of cable, running north and south, and it does not use cables connected in circuit. This way, there is no back flow cancelling out the current. The air will provide the back flow like the ionosphere provided the back flow with the tether experiment.
     
  8. Persol I am the great and mighty Zo. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,946
    A worldwide dynamic brake... interesting...
     
  9. geistkiesel Valued Senior Member

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    2,471
    Do you think that the electrical conductors should be restricted to essentiall round wires? Would a large area "sail" be approriate?

    Have you made any V = i R calculations for any arbitary model?
    geistkiesel
     
  10. ghost7584 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    374
    geistkeisel
    Do you think that the electrical conductors should be restricted to essentiall round wires? Would a large area "sail" be approriate?

    I think that a flat horizontal conductor, like a sail laying down, would hold more of the vertical magnetic field lines and would possibly provide more power. However, such flat conductors would probably not be economical to produce or insulate. The use of round insulated high voltage cables would be more economical because manufacture facilities are already geared up to produce that and also there may be many miles of this cable strung up somewhere and not in use, which could be used at the poles in my theory. Since this would be a commercial enterprise it should be cost effective.
    Alaska might be the only US territory close enough to the north where this could be done on US territory.

    Have you made any V = i R calculations for any arbitary model?
    geistkiesel

    I haven't made any calculations. Experimentation with setting up an actual trial would probably be appropriate before calculating. Government agencies or large corporations would need to do that.
    The insulation might need to be of another type, but this would also need to be tried experimentally. High voltage towers could be used holding several of these cables laid out along side of each other, each one going to its own large direct current motor.

    If this gets useful power for one cable, then the effect could be multiplied thousands of times using thousands of cables, since the magnetic field covers large areas near the north and south magnetic poles. It could add up to a lot of power.
     
  11. ghost7584 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    374
    persol

    A worldwide dynamic brake... interesting...

    This would get its energy from the Earth's rotation and would therefore cause the Eath's rotation to slow down. However, the Earth is so massive, this slow down should be negligible.
     
  12. Trilobyte Registered Senior Member

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    130
    Negligible?!
    How long do you think it will take to terraform Mars...?
     
  13. fo3 acdcrocks Registered Senior Member

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    552
    Should the fact that the line speed of earths surface gets smaller near the poles be taken into account too? So that the optimal location of the origin point of the cables wouldn't be exactly at the poles.
    It shouldn't be too difficult to make some rough calculation on how much voltage would be created, but I don't have much time now, so I'm gonna leave it to the future..

    And the earths rotation is being slowed down anyway by the suns gravity, so the effect should indeed be negligible, since the amount of energy created by the friction in earths inner layers by the tidal forces is probably much bigger then we could ever create by using earths magnetic field.
     
  14. geistkiesel Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,471
    We have facilities at the exact South Pole and the North pole is frozen 100% of the time. Both cases mean the development of uinique energy storage systems, such as massive capacitor plate arrangements?
    Geistkiesel
     
  15. ghost7584 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    374
    Geistkeisel

    Like fo3 said in his post, the polar end of the cable does not need to be started close to the pole. The area on the Earth where the magnetic field lines come up out of the Earth and are strong enough to generate electricity, would probably extend for over 150 miles (more or less) away from the magnetic poles. Comparing to the tether experiment, the length of the cables needed might only be about 15 miles long.
    It could be done far enough away from the actual pole that the weather conditions might not be a problem. I was thinking about small insulated power sheds that could be heated by small electric heaters, the power for that coming from the cable. In this shed you would have the large direct current motor and the alternating current generator, and the transformer. The shed might only need to be heated to 25 degrees fahrenheit to keep the equipment functioning without temperature interfering. Power lines from the shed take it to high voltage lines headed for the cities. High voltage lines can transmit power for 300 miles or more, before you need to do anything to boost power or change it in any way.
     
  16. fo3 acdcrocks Registered Senior Member

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    552
    Could you give me any links on the Faradays discovery? Maybe I'm just getting it wrong, but doesn't the assumption "magnetic field is a property of space itself" imply, that there is an absolute reference frame, where the magnetic field is at rest?
     
  17. ghost7584 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    374
    f03
    Could you give me any links on the Faradays discovery? Maybe I'm just getting it wrong, but doesn't the assumption "magnetic field is a property of space itself" imply, that there is an absolute reference frame, where the magnetic field is at rest?

    Space is at rest. How could space be moving? Objects move through space (but that movement is only relative to any other objects, it can't be relative to space.) Space itself doesn't move. [In acceleration or in a gravity field, space-time will warp; but that is space-time and not just space.-see general relativity.] If the magnetic field is part of space, then it can't move; but that means it can't move relative to the rotating disc either. I think that Faraday's idea about the magnetic field being part of space itself is really incorrect; Faraday was before Einstein and the idea about reference frames wasn't part of theory until Einstein started it. Faraday would have thought that space is an absolute reference frame.
    There is a different theory about what magnetism really is and I now believe that theory is correct.
    This theory for magnetism was proposed by Ed Leedskalnin, the builder of Coral Castle.
    coralcastle.com
    I'll summarize what he found out by experimenting with magnets. Just like physics considers an electron or proton to be the smallest unit of electric charge, there is a smallest unit of magnetism which he calls north and south pole individual magnets. They are free to flow in metals, in the air and in other things. The iron shavings around a bar magnet trace their path. From the North end of a magnet, there are many north pole magnets flowing out and going around the outside of the magnet and coming into the south pole of the magnet and then running in the metal and returning to the North pole. From the South pole of the magnet, there are many south pole magnets flowing out and going around the outside of the magnet and going into the North pole and flowing through the metal and returing to the South pole. Some flow straight out from the poles and don't return, but are replaced by others from the air.

    If the field really is these physical magnetic units flowing in the air, then that could give you a relative motion between these units and the disc, so that would explain how you could have a relative motion between the disc and the magnetic field. So you don't need to think of an absolute reference frame.
    Anyway, to make this work you just need a relative motion between the Earth and it's magnetic field, which is what is happening.
    Get on metacrawler search engine and look up homopolar generator, for a link. I don't have the original link that I got that from.
     
  18. fo3 acdcrocks Registered Senior Member

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    What aboutif we have an empty space, where nothing else exists, except the magnet and the disc? Would the device be at rest or rotating? If you don't have any other points of reference, then you don't have a possibility to measure any movement. In this case you should be able to measure the movement wrt to the space where the magnetic field is at rest, by measuring the voltage generated in the disc.

    Could anyone enlighten me on whether this is possible?
     

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