Freedom of Speech and Maturity

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by wellwisher, Dec 8, 2015.

  1. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    You're welcome to think whatever you damn please in Canada. You can even say stupid things if you want. If your speech incites hatred, that is interpreted as inciting violence, which has always been illegal, even in the US.
     
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  3. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    Well... I think your reaction in this case indicates immaturity.

    Back in oh... 1974 a friend of the family was discussing how much he hated the pressure he was receiving from the gay community to stop using the word faggot to describe himself. How it was degrading... etc. His point of view?

    I hate the word gay! I Like the word Faggot, its more masculine. Gay... makes me sound like a girl..

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  5. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    Yawn.
     
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  7. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Staff Member

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    You'd think. But we Americans are presently reeling; the Trump presidential candidacy has revealed a deeper extent of bigotry in our country than we have traditionally been allowed by custom to believe. That is to say, in my lifetime when we lashed out against the inherent bigotry in conservatism, we were told this was unfair, because the problem was the squeaky wheels we could hear, and the spectacular public performances we could witness. It was just a few bad seeds, and you can't condemn that many people as bigots.

    And in my lifetime we've been through this over African-Americans, women, hispanics, African-Americans, women, hispanics, Muslims, women, African-Americans, women, and Muslims again. In the 1990s we had a "halfway joke" that was also half serious, the proposition of "Angry White Male Syndrome".

    And it turns out that American conservatism really does rely on white, male, Christian supremacism. And the one thing the rest of us get out of the Superstorm Donald is a chance to see just how deeply this runs↗, and the outcome is more than a little unsettling.

    And we who have been asserting conservative bigotry over the years―for decades, even―do not get to celebrate being correct. It's one of the challenges of certian political outlooks; if you're correct, it means something bad is happening. Two ways of looking at it: We get to enjoy rubbing society's nose in conservative racism starting on election night, when the Democrats win the White House; or, and probably more appropriately, we don't get to enjoy being correct on this count at all, because there really are more important things than congratulating ourselves for having noticed something obvious.

    But one of the things I'm coming to terms with in the middle of all this is that it's not a cynical political ploy insofar as it would seem conservatives really do believe the insane stuff they've been saying for decades.

    And there is also still a question of political correctness. To wit, to use your frame, yes, actually, he really can be. This is, generally speaking, an unkind assessment. In the past, we were expected to reserve such direct condemnations, but in general that custom has always been challenged and is obviously a failing regime in the twenty-first century; more specifically, our neighbor has been trying to prove that he really is so _____. And whether we want to say, dumb, stupid, faithful, devoted, committed, incompetent, insane, bigoted, hateful, &c., it's essentially an eye of the beholder thing. Fill in the blank as you will, but he really, really, really wants to be seen behaving this way.

    Largely anonymously, of course. It's a lot easier to hang your daughter's human rights if she doesn't actually know you are unwilling to acknowledge she is a human being.

    Call it what you will, but he really, really, really wants his Sciforums character to be seen behaving this way.
     
  8. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    What, the truth hurts or is this yet another Republican attempt at censorship?

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  9. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    I thought the post was self explanatory but apparently not.

    I thought about responding but your constant tirades about republicans is boring. I have told you in the past I am not a republican, but you cant seem to retain this information.

    What I am unsure about is whether your obsession/constant association is actually early symptoms of dementia.
     
  10. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    LOL! Uh no. Reacting with anger to hate speech directed at you isn't immature. It's common sense and self-respect.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  11. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry, hate speech is offensive and emotionally wounding, and doesn't indicate immaturity or insecurity on the part of its victim. That's just insane. Have you ever been the victim of hate speech from a stranger?
     
  12. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Oh sure, you are not a Republican, you just like to defend and promulgate their ideology.

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    But no you are not a Republican. You are like the many others who preach and defend Republican ideology but don't want to be called Republican because the Republican Party isn't pure enough for you.

    And here is the thing, did I say you were a Republican in the post you referenced? You know what, I didn't say you were a Republican...oops. And you have the audacity to suggest someone else has early symptoms of dementia....really?

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    LOL

    One more thing, a statement of facts isn't a tirade. Dissent isn't a tirade, although I can understand why some Republicans would think so. Republicans don't like facts, that's why they eschew institutions of higher learning and the mainstream press. That's why Republicans have invented their own echo chambers lest they should ever be confronted with real facts and reason (e.g. climate change). Last presidential election cycle, Republicans even invented their own polling system to tell them they were winning when conventional (i.e. mainstream) polling indicated they were losing.

    Well, before you go diagnosing others of early symptoms of dementia I suggest you take a long and very serious look at yourself. Ad hominem unfortunately is a common Republican retort used to suppress a reasoned discussion of uncomfortable facts. It has never worked for you and it isn't gonna work now.

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    Personal attacks are a little immature, don't you think?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  13. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    If I agree with an idea I promote it. But thread wasnt about republicans, only you mentioned political affiliation.

    Its your obsession not mine.

    As far as your dementia symptoms, thats not ad hominen, its pointing out a potential medical condition. An observation is not a personal attack. Your not stupid and I know in the past you had a great memory. But its failing you now, which is why you cannot remember I am not a republican. Once upon a time, in this very forum you could remember such things. Once upon a time you could remember what political affiliation someone held when you were arguing with them. Joe, why cant you remember these things now?
     
  14. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Yes you do promote Republican ideology even though you don't want to be called Republican. And no the thread isn't about Republicans, but that doesn't mean one cannot mention them or reference them in responding to the OP. Now maybe that makes you feel distressed. That confrontation with reality might be a bit much for your cognitive dissonance, but that ain't my problem. It's yours.

    And let me remind you, you wrote this, "Quote: Even President Obama has decried illiberal tendencies in liberal arts settings, fretting that college students are “coddled and protected from different points of view.”. You introduced partisanship into this thread my dear Milkweed in your post #10. Don't look now but your memory seems to have picked up and gone.

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    You were asked to prove your assertion using credible sources, something you have yet to do.

    Well here is the funny thing, apparently you don't remember what you posted just a few posts ago and you want to accuse someone of suffering from early dementia...seriously?

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    And here is the other problem with your assertion of my dementia, as pointed out in my last post, your premise is deeply flawed. It rests on your assertion that I accused you of being a Republican? And as previously pointed out, I never accused you of being a Republican...oops.

    This is what I wrote, now you show me where I accused you of being a Republican. This is the post which your claim of dementia is based.

    http://www.sciforums.com/threads/freedom-of-speech-and-maturity.153393/#post-3345293

    Read it and weep Milkweed.

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    The better question is why can you not be honest? So yes, accusing someone of early dementia based upon a false premise and diagnosing a disease for which you are not qualified to diagnose is indeed ad hominem. Sorry, Milkweed. But once again, truth and reason betray you.

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    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  15. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    You think its hate speech, but you ignore the rest of the post describing other gay men not agreeing with that assessment.

    Common sense says Names will never hurt me. And the guy in the car didnt have to be redirected, you did:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_mentality
     
  16. Beer w/Straw Transcendental Ignorance! Valued Senior Member

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    You can also be afraid....

    Say I'm 5/4 and 100 pounds.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  17. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    Because in Joes limited world, it couldnt possibly be someone can agree with a different individual UNLESS its politically motivated.

    You need to re-read post # 7 for who introduced politics.

    And that was a quote from the article, not my words.

    See, you cant keep the story straight. People have to repeat to you things already said. Early signs of Dementia.
     
  18. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Oh, and what lead a reason person to that conclusion? Post #7 was merely a statement of relevant facts. Facts aren't political, they are just facts. It's not my problem those relevant facts make you uncomfortable. Additionally, you posted those words regardless of where you sourced them.
     
  19. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    You mean Joes Facts, not facts in general right?
     
  20. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Well there is only one set of facts here. If you feel any of the facts I have cited are incorrect, you are free to dispute them and back up your case with evidence.
     
  21. milkweed Valued Senior Member

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    ah, Joes Facts it is.

    I have to go to work now... You should maybe take a nap, reduce some stress.

    Dont worry too much, probably 5 good years, maybe 10 before it gets really bad. Pay attention when the family starts suggesting maybe you shouldnt drive anymore.
     
  22. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    LOL ... like I said, if you care to dispute any of the facts I have referenced, please do so. But you can't. Unfortunately for you and those like you, ad homiem isn't a substitute for evidence and reason.
     
  23. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    You cited some moron embracing hate slurs as somehow endearing. That doesn't make the hate speech morally acceptable. Hate speech DOES hurt. And anyone familiar with the nature of hatecrimes knows that such speech is often a prelude to violence. A person who hates you enough to shout hatespeech at you also hates you enough to attack you. That's why such encounters are terrifying to say the least. These are people who actually believe you have no right to exist. Hatespeech is the attempt to devalue you as a human being and a person. To treat you as a subhuman who has no right to be alive. And that is being victimized for no reason. Are you actually supporting hatespeech?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015

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