Fundamental or nearly fundamental energy and the origin of Intelligence?

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by Dennis Tate, Mar 19, 2021.


Would Intelligence begin in fundamental or nearly fundamental energy?

  1. No

    4 vote(s)
  2. Yes

    1 vote(s)
  3. I would tend to think so at least????

    1 vote(s)
  1. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member


    What about people who just have a brush with death, but who do not have a "near death" experience?

    People who have traumatic experiences in which they are in mortal danger, or come close to death, often come out of such experiences with an altered outlook on life. Almost dying often brings a sense of focus. It doesn't have to be a mystical or religious thing.

    You use words like "my guess" and "seems" and similar terms a lot, Dennis. Maybe you should stop guessing so much. Start with the facts, and don't go running off on wild flights of fancy before you have the facts.
    Dennis Tate likes this.
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  3. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Did you read it because you were looking for something to confirm what you already believed, regarding near death experiences, religion and so on? That's not what a good critical thinker would do. Ideally, you should be looking for things that challenge your existing views, not just things that you think might confirm them. You should concentrate more on those aspects of string theory that do not support your beliefs about "The void" or religion or near death experiences, or whatever.

    If you only ever go searching for things that will confirm your beliefs, then that's exactly what you'll tend to find. This is called "confirmation bias". To think critically, you have to adopt the position that you might be wrong, before you start looking at the evidence.

    What evidence, other than his say-so, is there that Mr Mellen Benedict gained "increased intellectual capabilities" from a near-death experience? Is there anything?

    More interestingly, you say you believe he gained knowledge on higher invisible dimensions. Do you have access to that knowledge? Did he tell anybody? Is there anything in that "special" knowledge that is new to science, or it is all just the vague kinds of anecdotes you've previously posted, concerning "The void" and all that mystical nonsense that has no checkable content?

    I don't know who Stanley Meyer is, or how any of this is relevant to what we've been discussing. Can you explain?
    There's an open mind, and there's a mind so open that your brains fall out.

    The most important question is this: what have you done - or what are you going to do - to work out whether Dr George Ritchie's reports about his NDE contain any useful information, as opposed to being merely worthless anecdote?

    What is it about Ritchie's "testimony" (read "story" or "tall tale") that "sounds a lot like string theory", specifically? What "important levels" are you referring to?

    I mean, so far, your links between string theory and other things have been incredibly tenuous. Is the Ritchie stuff any better?

    I'm not clear on what you're claiming. Are you claiming that Ritchie found out things about string theory during his NDE that working physicists didn't know in the 1990s? Is that what you're saying? If so, isn't that something for which we could find evidence? Where is the evidence, then?
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2021
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Maybe you weren't taught about the theory of evolution very well. Maybe you didn't understand it. Maybe you still don't understand it.


    You claim you became an atheist at age eight, and stayed an atheist until age 14.

    What were your beliefs before age eight? What made you decide, at age eight, that you were an atheist?

    And then, at age 14 an evangelist convinced you to do back to God. Was that because you found the "soul sleep" theory to be convincing evidence for God, at that time, or were there other reasons?

    As an atheist at the time, what value did you place on the need for evidence for God, as a precursor to belief? Did you, at 14, discover some appropriate evidence for God, or did you return to religion for a different reason?

    And then later, you fell out with Armstrong's church because you no longer believed his "soul sleep" theory (whatever that is). Does that bring us up to date? What do you believe now about God? Do you belong to a different church now?

    What was it that made you stop believing in the "soul sleep" theory - so much that you spoke up or did something to get yourself "disfellowshipped"? Did you replace the "soul sleep" theory with some other belief - a new belief in something else, perhaps?

    What do you now believe, and why?
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  7. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Dr. Maurice Rawlings found out that a high percentage of the seventy to eighty percent of near death experiencers
    who REMEMBER NOTHING from the time they flatlined .... had a less than fun near death experience that scared them so badly that they repressed the memories of
    their somewhat negative NDE.

    Dr. Rawlings was both a cardiac surgeon but also trained to be able to hypnotically regress his patients to the time of
    their surgery in which they flatlined.

    Here is a two minute video that describes how and why Dr. Maurice Rawlings got into this topic.........

    It literally scared the hell out of me - The near death experience of Dr Maurice Rawlings

    This longer video goes into much more detail....
    I personally purchased Dr. Maurice Rawling's book during the 1990's but I think I gave it to somebody else.

    Dr. Maurice Rawlings - To Hell and Back Documentary MUST WATCH!!!

    Perhaps it was those negative near death experience accounts that actually got me
    somewhat obsessed with the possible value of NDE testimony as perhaps becoming know
    to contain what may soon be known to be nothing less than "Evidence for Applied Multiverse Theory.?"

    Sunset tonight begins Passover......
    and I am one Messianic Gentile or Christian who has been interested in perhaps becoming
    an observant Jew because I find that the lectures by near death experiencer Rabbi Alon Anava
    fit perfectly with many of the really shocking evidence from near death experience accounts.

    Applied Multiverse Theory.....
    applied by an entity that would begin.... and evolve in fundamental or nearly fundamental energy.....
    over infinite time in the past.... not in merely thirteen point eight billion years but within eternity.....
    leads to the following conclusion........... for the long term fate of all humans.....
  8. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    At the time that I began reading these NDE accounts, 1989 or 1990.....
    they put me through a pretty serious philosophical crisis that led to my
    parting ways from the Worldwide Church of God that I had been involved with since 1973 when I was thirteen or fourteen.

    NDE accounts and somewhat related information soon led me to researching even the evidence for reincarnation, which I now take very seriously, so I no longer even fit in in any
    major Christian church and I am seriously wondering if I might fit in in a Jewish Synagogue as a "Noahide" once our home in
    Nova Scotia sells because if we do as planned and move to the Greater Toronto Area, I would be able to attend a synagogue regularly?

    The fact that a significant percentage of near death experiencers seem to go through a surge in IQ as well as other intellectual gifts....
    some near death experiencers have to run away from their electronic equipment if they feel certain emotions coming on because
    they will somehow so affect some types of sensitive electronic equipment so that it will no longer work once they are around it.....

    ... .while in certain states of consciousness??????

    Near death experiencer Dr. Kevin Zadai went from an IQ of 106 up to 159 after his brush with death.

    Dr. Bruce MacDonald had an even more major surge in IQ and tested over 220 after his second NDE.

    Christian Andreason for example......
    after his brush with death wrote a book that corresponds with information from the paranormal that I read
    a great deal of since 1990.

    His conclusions all across the spectrum of the paranormal fit with some of the research that has been done.

    For example... his teachings on reincarnation fit well with the Dr. Ian Stevenson research as well as with the Helen Wambach Ph. D. research.

    How did Mr. Christian Andreason know all these things from his brush with death??????

    ..... Chapter five is on reincarnation:
  9. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    According to whom?
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  10. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    He is qualified to fly many types of jets......
    people who take pilot training take a lot of tests.
    Frankly...... he was invited to fly F-16's.... no kidding!
  11. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    So what?
    That doesn't give ANY figures for an IQ score, let alone corroborate an increase.
    Dennis Tate likes this.
  12. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    Dr. Kevin Zadai gave the figures for his pre NDE IQ in one of his lectures.....
    I took twenty four online courses by him since January of 2020.....
    they were in shockingly simple and easy to understand English... My wife did five courses by him last week.

    If I had not ran into many similar accounts I might have been more skeptical of his assertions relative to that shift.

    Near death experiencer Dr. Bruce MacDonald described his own IQ test after his second brush with death.
  13. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    In other words the IQ claims are unsubstantiated.
  14. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    No..... the Psychology Today article did verify that aspect of the formula to at least some degree way back in 1992.

    Bright Lights, Big Mystery | Psychology Today

    You are probably aware that during the LDS tests of the 1960's some of the highest IQ scores ever recorded were one result?

    DMT Models the Near-Death Experience
  15. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Nothing about a possible IQ increase and, more pertinently, nothing that corroborates the two specific claims about individuals.
    Again, nothing about IQ increase or the guys in question.
    It does, however indicate that NDE could simply be a "drug overdose", not an actual experience of the "afterlife".
    Dennis Tate likes this.
  16. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    If that is what you get out of the article.......
    that is your choice.......

    That was written in 1992.... more work has been done since then.....
    Do a search for Dr. Ken Ring if you actually want to understand this better.
  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    How did he find out they had a "less than fun" NDE if they remembered nothing?
    Ah, hypnosis.

    The problem there is that people who are hypnotised become very susceptible to suggestion and fantasy. False memories can be "implanted" by hypnosis. There's lot of evidence of this.

    It seems very likely to me that Dr Rawlings implanted false memories of "less than fun" NDEs in his hypnosis subjects.

    What do you think about that?

    So belief in Jesus is not very important to your faith? NDE is much more important to you? Why?
  18. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    From my reading, the Worldwide Church of God was going through a whole lot of internal problems at that time, so maybe you were searching around for something else to believe in?

    Have you read the wikipedia article?

    Grace Communion International - Wikipedia

    Were you uncomfortable with the Worldwide Church of God's move towards more mainstream evangelical doctrines, including acceptance of the Holy Trinity? It sounds a bit like you still agree with ideas such as the Sabbath. What about Armstrong's views on "British Israelism"?

    It seems to me that Herbert Armstrong was something of a cult-like leader. He married a woman 50 years younger than him. He preached some unorthodox ideas that are incompatible with the more "mainstream" ideas of various other Christian churches. He maintained an iron grip on the way that his church was run. None of it sounds very healthy for his followers. It sounds like you may have been wise to get out. I just hope you didn't replace one cult belief by a different one, in the process.

    Reincarnation is not a belief that Jewish people ascribe to.

    But I'm interested in your views on Jesus. Do you believe Jesus was the Messiah? What about the Second Coming? Do you believe the End Times are coming sometime soon (or that we're already in them)?

    You realise that Judaism does not accept that Jesus was the Messiah, right? Is that also your belief, as you say you're thinking of converting to Judaism?

    I'd be interested in your results on the following survey, too:

    Note: I'm not recommending this as a method for choosing a religion, or anything like that, but it might give you some insight into which religions most closely match your actual views on various things. If you'd like to share, I'd be interested - maybe post in that thread.
    I've seen no good evidence that they do.
    I don't believe that. It would be very easy to test. Are you aware of any such tests being done, under controlled conditions? If not, then does that concern you at all? Do you wonder why no rigorous tests of that type have ever been done on near death experiencers?

    I don't believe them. Not without some evidence other than their own testimony. Why do you believe them?

    What's more likely: that they are making it up, or that they actually have off-the-scale IQs following their NDEs?
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  19. river

    Highlighted ; neither do I .
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2021
  20. river

    An IQ from 106 to 159 is extremely significant .

    As it is a 220 IQ .
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  21. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    That is exactly my belief as well.

    I have listened to hundreds of hours of lectures by near death experiencer Dr. Kevin Zadai and he does impress me
    as having had a surge in IQ up to around the 159 range......
    which is especially interesting considering that he is Pentecostal...... just like my wife.....
    but his over view of the world as one part of a vastly larger Multiverse.... is kind of amazing..... especially considering his
    philosophical background in a movement noted for rather dogmatic and black and white thinking on so many questions!
  22. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member

    In one way it is a really good thing that you do not believe them because
    both Dr. Kevin Zadai as well as Bruce F. MacDonald Ph. D. are in a position where
    their becoming rather famous and / or infamous, if and when the evidence comes out
    regarding their surge in IQ......
    this could result in so many new people reading their books that a significant decrease
    in tensions between religions is the most likely result.

    Here is a discussion that I began in all seriousness based on my thinking about the NDE of
    Bruce F. MacDonald for about a year and a half.......

    Your nomination for Nobel Prize in Literature?
    I will now send you a little personal message with a summary of what is written on pages 137 to 170 in this book but here is an example of it. A Thomas background.html A Thomas samples.html
  23. Dennis Tate Valued Senior Member


    This article might just get you inspired.... by at least an increased one to three percent......
    which might just lead to your accomplishing more in the upcoming week than I did in the previous decade?!

    Is your brain really a computer, or is it a quantum orchestra tuned to the universe?

    I could be wrong.....
    I very often am.....
    but I personally think that within twenty years it may become common knowledge that Dr. Chaim Tejman was actually doing a pretty good job of writing and illustrating a similar idea but......
    when Hebrew is your first language what you attempt to say may tend to offend many people whose first language is English?!

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