George Floyd trial,could you make a case for the defendant not being guilty of the charges?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Seattle, Mar 30, 2021.

  1. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    The brown haired guy (day 11) was the prosecution's use-of-force expert, and he did waver and flirt with perjuring himself, at one point answering both "it depends" and "absolutely" to the same question.
    The white haired guy (day 12) was the defense's use-of-force expert, and I haven't seen him waver at all.
     
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  3. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    It's hard to get people to accept jury duty when they might be locked up in a hotel room for a month.
     
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  5. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Something has puzzled me, and continues. A jury of your peers

    So a jury of policemen?

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  7. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    This is just one clip, but there are others that show how unprepared Barry Brodd was as an ''expert witness.'' This witness thinks that Floyd should have been laying perfectly still, although he was in pain, trying to breathe - as he put it ''resting comfortably'' to show he was compliant?

    https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1382075058408075267

    Chauvin's actions when seeing the video a few times over, clip by clip as shown to witnesses in the trial, seem like he didn't believe Floyd. Perhaps suspects ''fake'' illness and pain in order to not be cuffed or arrested. But, we're way past that point, when Floyd's breathing grew more shallow, and he stopped speaking. Eventually, he wasn't moving, and then died. I just don't understand how a rational person didn't know to let up the restraint at that point.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  8. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    It just means one's ''fellow citizens.''
     
  9. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    The clear cut case that has been in the news recently is the Army Lt. who was pepper sprayed and had two guns pointed at him while calmly complying with the arresting officer. He wasn't arrested and ultimately they let him go but told him he would face more charges if he complained.

    They stopped him for not having a rear license plate even though they later saw that he had a temporary license plate taped to his car.

    He told them he was afraid to get out of the car (as he held his hands out of the window) he also had his seat belt on and was probably afraid to reach down there with two cops pointing guns at him.

    He has now sued the department for $1 million (it's a tiny department with 6 cops) and one cop has been fired. When he said he was afraid to get out, one cop told him "You should be afraid".

    There should be zero tolerance when this kind of thing occurs. The whole police department should be replaced (the town is only 2,000 people I think).

    This is the kind of case that I find particularly upsetting not one where the person reaches for a gun, runs, has a warrant, etc.
     
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  10. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    This is a really troubling case, agree. Army Lt. Nazario was driving his new car home, so it still had a temporary tag.

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    https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/11/us/windsor-virginia-police-stop-army-lieutenant-lawsuit/index.html

    Wow.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  11. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    They didn't see it initially and assumed it was a stolen car but he didn't exactly act like the typical car thief and therefore there was no need to draw the weapons and of course it just went downhill from there.

    Monkeys should have guns is the lesson I suppose.
     
  12. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    Man, the prosecution would love you as a juror. Easily manipulated. You're just falling for the prosecutor's framing. Brodd never agreed that Chauvin was "on top" of Floyd (in the sense of body weight), he had already said that Chauvin was not using force (hence did not alter the level of force), and unless Chauvin definitely knew Floyd was having trouble breathing, even though he started saying that the second they tried to put him in the car, anything but a relaxed position does still indicate some degree of resistance.

    You don't think to "let up" on someone you're applying no force to, and as others had testified, suspects on drugs had been known to calm before suddenly resisting again.


    He did not comply, and on a felony stop. They let him go when they could have charged him with obstruction, at the very least.

    Police do not take that chance, especially at night, with heavily tinted windows. Odds are, they take that chance and they're dead.
     
  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    While I understand fellow citizens I also feel fellow citizens to be extremely wide in scope

    Just as someone be eliminated due to perceived bias (I did see if memory serves me correctly) those picked for possible selection had a 16 page questionnaire to see if suitable

    Seriously? Either pick a total random group, no questionnaire, or pick his peers

    Where both the prosecutor and defence pick the jury according to their own perceived bias of said juror (a legal means of trying to stack the jury) seems to me poor system

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  14. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Once the window was down, his hands were out of the windows and they still had two guns pointed at him and now what's your justification? One cop was fired. Why was that?
     
  15. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    The obvious stupid model of society the whole of the US operates under

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  16. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    That’s not what he said on cross examination. He flip flopped so much in fact that he could have been mistaken for the prosecution’s witness.

    Risk is different than a threat. Sure, a police officer could dream up a number of risks but Floyd wasn’t a threat once he became unresponsive. That is what many witnesses have testified to.

    Why was one of the police officers fired? Nazario wasn’t breaking the law, he wanted to drive up to a lighted area (I don’t blame him) and he politely asked what he had done. They pepper sprayed him and practically assaulted him over their error. They didn’t see a temporary tag on his vehicle. It’s racial profiling, if we want to be honest about it.

    And black men don’t want to take the chance of turning out like George Floyd which could be why he drove to a lighted area and recorded the incident. Always two sides but since one of the police officers has been fired, seems like they were in the wrong.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
  17. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    So they should have welcomed his decision to stop in a well lit area, to reduce the risks to themselves. (Assuming, of course, the rationale was their own safety.)
     
  18. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    Question for y’all - read an update about the trial and the defense put a witness up today who in his expert opinion, would rule Floyd’s death “undetermined.” He feels there was a cluster of issues going on at the same time (heart issues, stress exacerbating the heart issues, carbon monoxide coming from the police car tail pipe by Floyd’s head, etc) So, the main cause would be cardiac arrest while he was being restrained. Not due to the restraint.

    My question is could a jury still find Chauvin guilty of manslaughter, because he didn’t react to Floyd’s distress and help to save his life?
     
  19. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    Given that Chauvin caused two of those issues, yes. Manslaughter is negligence or carelessness that causes a death. It requires malice - thus the prosecution would have to prove that Chauvin intended to cause Floyd discomfort. But that's all it requires. Intending malice, then acting towards someone based on that malice - but with no intent to kill or seriously harm - is involuntary manslaughter if the person dies as a result.
     
  20. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    Like everything, they have to judge his intent. Proving intent to "do wrong" could go either way.
     
  21. candy Valued Senior Member

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    Negligent homicide does not require intent.

    To me when anyone puts a knee on another person's neck they are totally responsible for the outcome.
    No one should ever put a knee on another person's neck; the police need to learn this. The problem is that the police have seen other officers get away with aggressive behavior that has resulted in death. I am thinking of the case in NYC where a man was placed in a chokehold which is prohibited by the rules yet other officers watched and did nor said anything as the victim cried he could not breathe and died. Nothing was done to that gang of cops. It leads others to think they also will get a pass.
    It is time the public demands the police police themselves.
     
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  22. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials...ering-up-black-teens-death-in-police-custody/

    This witness introduced the idea that possibly the tail pipe exhaust contributed to Floyd's death. This is getting absurd. Yea, anything and everything except Chauvin killed Floyd.

    So, I guess the defense wants us to take away, that if only Floyd was in better health and not on drugs, he would have been able to handle all the abuse given to him that day by Chauvin and his fellow officers.
     
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  23. Seattle Valued Senior Member

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    "Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, if Mr. Floyd had simply gotten into the backseat of the squad car he would still be here today. Even if he hadn't gotten into the backseat he would still be here if not for the tail pipe. If the car has a tail pipe, you must acquit!"
     

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