God’s glitch in Eden. A & E had to break God’s second command to accomplish the first

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Greatest I am, Jul 27, 2013.

  1. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,740
    God’s glitch in Eden. A & E had to break God’s second command to accomplish the first.

    Eden is a rather easy myth to follow if you are not a Christian and do not see a fall but the elevation that the Jews had originally written into that story. Jews thought that man having his eyes opened and gaining God’s moral sense was a good thing.

    Christians do not and ignore the bible that says that that moral sense is the number one priority we are supposed to be working on. Be ye as God.

    God told A & E to reproduce in Genesis 1. That was for the two people made of clay. Most Christians do not take the Lilith myth as real for Genesis 1 and would rather believe that God created woman as an afterthought with Adam’s rib. Dumb to dumber.

    Genesis 2 shows a rather stupid omission for a God who does not seem to know that a human male needs a human female to reproduce.

    Yet God not only failed to give Adam a mate, a glaring idiocy by any measure, until Genesis 2 but also did not give Adam the desire to reproduce till Adam gained that desire on his own by ignoring God’s immoral command to basically remain in ignorant bliss and stupid.

    Adam had to eat of the tree of knowledge before he could reproduce or develop the desire for reproduction and sex. After all, desires and sex both have good and evil sides so Adam could not have done either without the knowledge of good and evil.

    Do you recognize the truth in A & E not being able to do God’s first command to reproduce without first eating of the tree of knowledge?

    Adam and Eve’s eyes had to be opened before sex. And that took the knowledge encased in the tree of knowledge.

    Do you recognize that that is when Adam and Eve became able to reproduce or have sex because they could not desire it until after they ate of the tree of knowledge?

    Regards
    DL
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. arauca Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,564
    Why do you pick second or third chapter for your argument
    Read the first chapter verse 27 and 28
    27 And God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.
    28 And God blessed them; and God said unto them: 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that creepeth upon the earth.'
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,740
    I'm not sure where you are at but thanks for quoting what I had referenced.

    Could A & E reproduce in Genesis 1 without the knowledge and desire gained in Genesis 3?

    Regards
    DL
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,776
    I think it is hard to say with certainty, because I believe "offspring" is only mentioned after they both "sinned." (Eating of the tree of knowledge)

    I'd have to say yes, they still "procreated," because of what precedes the sin. God is noted as creating man and woman to multiply, so one could *assume* that lust/sexual desire was not a necessary factor in procreating, at that time. (That takes some serious assuming on the part if the reader. Lol)

    I want to say, this is a great thread topic, and this really isn't chatted about amongst "believers," for obvious reasons.

    I'm Christian, and yet I've often thought of Genesis as metaphorical in nature. Sometimes, I think the story in Genesis was designed to show solidarity. Meaning, we are all on this earth, together. Created to function together, helping each other "as if" we all came from the same family. But that isn't a literal interpretation.

    Just my two cents.

    As a footnote. The bible was first compiled by the Roman Catholic Church. I'm not trying to be cynical, but how could anyone authentically know the mind of God? The NT at least points to eye witness accounts of walking through life with Jesus. (Gospel teachings written by Apostles)
    Now, faith is the evidence of things not seen. To believe in God, I have to have faith. But, this doesn't mean we abandon all reasoning.
    I could go on and on but I will end it there, for now.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    I look forward to seeing others' thoughts on this.
     
  8. arauca Banned Banned

    Messages:
    4,564
    After Genesis 1 are the explanation on how man desired to explore the world on his own. And so The subsequent chapters gives you the consequences .
     
  9. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,740

    Nowhere in scriptures is procreating even hinted at except after they ate of the tree of knowledge and saw that they were naked.

    If you think that one can reproduce and have sex without desire for it then you are not a good thinker at all.

    Look at your spouse without desire and see how long you keep him or her.

    Regards
    DL
     
  10. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,740
    Quote anything that shows A & E desired to explore the world on their own.

    You will not find it so stop making stuff up.

    Regards
    DL
     
  11. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,049
    No. There's nothing in the story to suggest that Adam and Eve weren't having sex before they ate the fruit. They just didn't know about the implications, either good or bad.

    Of course not. Other species manage to reproduce just fine without either knowledge or desire.
     
  12. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,776
    Genesis 1:28 ...please read

    Secondly, I didn't say anything that you suggest. If anything, I believe sexual desire IS a precursor to having sex. Enjoyable sex, anyways.
    I'm saying there needs to be assumption on the part of the reader to assume otherwise.

    Hopefully, this better clarifies my point.
     
  13. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,194
    Which species would those be? How do you know they don't experience "desire"? Isn't a desire to reproduce instinctual?
     
  14. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,776
     
  15. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,776
    I think that by desire, it's being assumed here that that is synonymous with lust, when speaking of Adam and Eve. In other words, it is being suggested that God contradicted Himself by suggesting to do something that later was looked upon as a sin.

    This is my take; I could be wrong.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,049
    You can equate instinct to desire if you like. The point of the thread seems to be that knowledge is required for reproduction and that is the point I was addressing. There's no reason why Adam and Eve couldn't have had instinctual "desire" before eating the fruit, just like other species do.
     
  17. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,740
    What does it mean to you when scriptures say that their eyes were opened and they knew they were naked for the first time?

    Is that not reaching sexual maturity?

    As to your last. I guess that you have never reared animals or you would know that even a rabbit who is not in the mood/desire will not reproduce.

    Strange that you would think you can reproduce without a desire to do so.
    What gets it up for you if not desire?

    Regards
    DL
     
  18. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,740
    Nope. You just dug yourself in deeper as scriptures say not to add to them.

    I agree with your view of desire.

    When in the narrative do A & E show any sexual desire or that they are even aware of each others bodies?

    Only after eating of the tree of knowledge. Right?

    Regards
    DL
     
  19. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,740
    Except for the fact that desire and sex contains both good and evil aspects and A & E had no clue as to what good and evil were before eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

    Regards
    DL
     
  20. wegs Matter and Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,776
    I didn't add to Scripture for Genesis 1:28 dispels any notions that Adam and Eve "had" to have sexual desire in order to procreate. That's very plain to see in that passage.

    May I ask, is the purpose of your opening post to get us to figure out how Adam and Eve had sex without desire?

    To answer your last question, I *think* that Adam and Eve, from what we can tell from the readings, felt shame once they realized that they could see one another naked. Whether or not that should be assumed by the reader to mean that they should feel ashamed to "desire" to have sex thereafter, is hard to say.

    There isn't a lot in the way of elaboration so I don't know.
     
  21. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,049
    No. It means that they understood for the first time what their sexual maturity meant. They understood for the first time the complications of child-rearing, etc. It doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't doing it before without understanding.

    But on the whole it's pretty hard to prevent rabbits from reporducing. They do so without understanding the implications of a flock of babies that they have no way of feeding. Lack of "desire", if you want to call it that, doesn't prevent nature from working the way it does - too many offspring, which can only be food for other species.

    That was what Adam and Eve realized when they ate the fruit.
     
  22. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,740
    It is not plain at all in Gen 1;28.

    They were told to reproduce and could not without desire.

    Your last shows that they knew nothing of reproduction and sex as they had no knowledge of nakedness.

    Did you know anything of reproduction before you knew what nakedness was?

    Of course not. No one does.
    It is called innocence.

    Regards
    DL
     
  23. Greatest I am Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,740
    You cannot do what requires a naked body without knowing what a naked body is.

    "Lack of "desire", if you want to call it that, doesn't prevent nature from working the way it does"

    Can you be ready for sex without desire?
    No you cannot. It all begins in the mind. It signals the organs. Even your little one. Smile.

    Regards
    DL
     

Share This Page