God given rights?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Xelasnave.1947, Apr 16, 2020.

  1. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    You ask, I provide

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    Xelasnave.1947 and Write4U like this.
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  3. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I get it now..you invent a creator and then claim he has sent you a Devine message outlining firstly what others can't do, and secondly that you can expect anything you care to invent like an after life... I must go and fill in my list, can I use more than one page..mmm maybe a collection of books..wait that's already been done ..first I want a pony then a big pigeon that I can ride ...well I have everything else..I have two horses but I want a little one that you can let inside...I wonder thru selective breeding if you could make a pigeon big enough to sit on and take you flying...could you cross breed the pigeon and pony?
    Don't you like the way Mr V elevates these discussion to a high level instead of just addressing the op...hang on he is on iggy for you.
    Alex
     
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  5. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    There is no single-word translation for dharma in Western languages. In Hinduism, dharma signifies behaviours that are considered to be in accord with Ṛta, the order that makes life and universe possible, and includes duties, rights, laws, conduct, virtues and "right way of living"

    I found this on wiki. Dont write a check your butt cant cash.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
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  7. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Eastern philosophy is based on a list of duties and rites called the dharma.
     
  8. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    A key concept usually fits only a single definition.
    If it has multiple meanings, which then is the "true" definition? Any common denominator can then only be subjectively "inferred", no?

    But even then, the wisdoms contained in all religions or philosophies (Dharma) are "man made". Cognition of universal truths is not the exclusive domain of religions or deisms.
    Cognition of universal truths are a product of "logic and reason" based on observed knowledge of the Universal mechanics which govern the way the universe works.

    Darwin's "On the Origin of Species" actually describes one of the mathematical mechanics of Universal evolution and that this knowledge can serve as a fundamental guide for a human behavioral philosophy for dealing with life's trials, tribulations, and opportunities, as befits our status in the greater scheme of Existence.

    So far, in the Darwinian biological organizational model of Earth, on the list of "Relationship with natural Environment" we meet the criteria of an evolving invasive parasitic organism.....

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    The evolutionary effects of such behavior can be observed today in man-made GW. These things cannot be denied.

    And only Science can explain (predict) the mathematical results of negligence in following a "symbiotic" behavioral pattern for a "self-sustaining" ecological system, regardless of religious philosophy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  9. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    Faith is both foundation, and a rite.
     
  10. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    And what foundation is that? We know all the religious foundational philosophies, and they are all different.

    The rites associated with the foundational beliefs are just as vague in practice as the belief on which they are founded.

    Sciences, such as Chemistry and Darwiniam Evolution explain in detail how and what makes this universe work and provide the "intellectual" foundation for a "best possible" behavioral relationship with our environment.

    Prayer is not a scientific discipline. It is a cry for help!.........

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    What is Prayer?
    https://www.crosswalk.com/faith/prayer/

    If the world was only that simple.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  11. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    LOL! That story about Newton is apocryphal. And anyone who understands science knows that you don't derive gravity from observation alone. Newton's gravity, as per your own cherry-picked (and even then you couldn't manage to quote anything about observation) and obviously misapprehended reference, was built on the earlier work of Galileo and Kepler.

    But it makes complete sense that you, of all people, would insist that science has nothing to do with reason.
    Hey, at least you managed to quote something about "observation" this time. Good for you!
    So you really believe that zero reasoning is involved in all of science? Wow, that's some world class ignorance.

    Hell, even your quote admits observations only "help him develop his theory".
    No, it's also true that pretending that the life of a human should be deemed equal to that of an ant, by ant, is complete nonsense. See how consistent reasoning works? Nature is what instills the survival instinct in every species. Again, no rights or laws are absolute in the real world, and you wishing they were is idealistic garbage.
    Mother Nature? Is that your god? If so, it's a real shame that you don't understand more about it.


    No, you just continue to make up willfully ignorant straw men.
     
  12. Vociferous Valued Senior Member

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    LOL! "Animals don't always have a good moral sense"? "If they don't understand"? So you think animals have some degree of moral reasoning? Okay buddy, go hit the bong again. (That would certainly explain your lack of intellectual rigor as of late.)
    A natural right of dominion, like all natural rights, is not nullified by human law or sensibilities.

    No, there's a difference between the natural right of a species to seek its own survival and the blanket moral statement that might always equals right.

    Too bad you couldn't be bothered to read my earlier reply to you (post #84), wherein you'd find your little "two-minute old fertilised human foetus" a complete straw man.
    Inter- and intra-species rights are obviously not the same things. Here, your argument could be equally used to justify cannibalism. Yeah, one hell of a "moral discovery".

    You say that, but your earlier misapprehension of the definition of natural rights belies that you have any clue at all.
    And I've already addressed your nonsense about "what will be will be". To reiterate, natural rights are those inherent to survival, not blanket justifications for vaguely conflated behaviors.
     
  13. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Since I am unfamiliar with dharma can you enlighten me please
    • when did the list of duties and rites first appear for the masses to observe, ie printed
    • what was the list based on, ie like the bible holy holy revaluations
    • how many versions have there been?
    Thank you

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    https://id.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma

    It is about 6:30 am and decided to look dharma up

    Extract from the above

    Dharm: Dharma is the spirit of humanity.

    Dharma is the heart to feel humanity.

    Dharma is an examiner and investigator of spiritual religion.

    Dharma investigates the reasons for creation.

    Dharma shows the relationship between the rules and the regulator of creation.

    Dharma helps one to introspect.

    Dharma is culture.

    Dharma is knowledge.

    Dharma is luck and salvation.

    Dharma gives immortality.

    Seems to me to be a bit wishy-washy, like you go to someone to ask about a aspect of dharma and you get a reply the equivalent of "think about (insert vague something here, ie life) blah blah blah

    Or perhaps the equivalent of "god moves in mysterious ways"

    The list is no more than unsubstantiated claims

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    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  14. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    So you can only provide a vague reference..got it....from the master of bouncing butt cheques.

    So I think we can safely say there are no god given rights ...it's the old claim and no evidence thing which theists do better than anyone else.

    Make believe and bouncing butt cheques what a fantasy world you indulge.

    And tell me do you know where the Sun goes at night?

    Thanks for your reply and have a great day.

    Alex
     
  15. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    The dharma has existed forever fore, and it will exist forever more. Moreover, this middle world we seem to live in has always existed too, but only at some point in infinity did the buddha come hence, and bring the dharma to earth.

    Idk know that there is a basis for the list, but the first principle is love. I see positive things (peace love and happiness), then double negatives like non-violence, compassion, and cessation of suffering. Then you have "sub-things" like to save, to perfect a thing, and learning. Then lastly we have moral opposites such as complexity, and secrets. That's what I call the four living creatures.

    The dharma means teaching of a buddha and each buddha can teach the dharma with subjective technique. There is only one cosmic order.
     
  16. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    The dharma is not only a list of rites but the things the universe needs to exist. If faith is fundamental to existence, it would be a natural rite.
     
  17. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    How do you KNOW?
    Placed in the unsubstantiated tray
    Mixed up gobbledygook
    So you DON'T know any basis for the list BUT you DO know the first principle is love.
    Which love?

    Then comes the blahs until....
    .... another ???? something I never heard of
    To sum up dharma in its boiled down essence is BE NICE

    The rest of the spin off nonsense is just made up 'see how smart I am' waffle

    = Reality

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  18. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Explain your assertion that
    Dharma is the spirit of humanity.

    Dharma is the heart to feel humanity.

    Dharma is an examiner and investigator of spiritual religion.

    Dharma investigates the reasons for creation.

    Dharma shows the relationship between the rules and the regulator of creation.

    Dharma helps one to introspect.

    Dharma is culture.

    Dharma is knowledge.

    Dharma is luck and salvation.

    Dharma gives immortality.

    are requirements for the Universe to exist

    And IF faith is NOT fundamental to existence it would be.....?

    After all there is a lot of faith floating around which does not appear to be a requirement for existence

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  19. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Of course I never said anything of the sort. But if you want another example;
    "How EINSTEIN Arrived at E=MC2"
    http://www.stresscure.com/hrn/einstein.html
     
  20. kx000 Valued Senior Member

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    4,986

    The dharma isnt that, spirit of humanity is but a single thing, part of all things (the dharma). The buddha of spirit is.

    Love is omnipotent and passive

    The dharma is omniscient and learning, one religious, the other neutral to religion, yet kind to God.

    "How" is creation, evolution, and cosmic order. How is my idea of the archangel Raphael. Angel of divine rite before authority. Follower of Faith. God and Heaven are the same, God is at the middle of Heaven, Heaven is nature.

    Rules and creation are the same, creation can be omnipresent, and you have pray to God and remain passive. On top of that creation can be the child and it is a cosmic law and remain non-repetitive. "We rise like strawberry fields forever."-The Beatles.

    We are all things, each and every thing is unique and different, each and every positive things has style, and style of it's own for that matter.

    Something like that.

    Dharma is all things. Thus Knowing the dharma means you know all things.

    Dharma is the middle way. Do both this and that simaltaneously, and separately. First you prove competence, then yes, certainly be lucky.

    Immortality can be fleeting to perception, but as long as I believe, and death remains nothingness I see no reason why death occurs in nature unless its part of hell, as God is omnipotent once again forevermore.

    There is no other way fo the world to exist other than absolute faith. I call that part of faith hope
    .
     
  21. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    If indeed..faith is just belief without evidence so it can support anything...it is usually wheeled out when theists are confronted with facts that establish they have nothing to support their fantasy that a creator and exists..there is no creator as the universe has always been and has no need to be created for it is eternal..no start no end...that is the way of it so no creator to give out god given rights that are without a evidence of their source.
    Seeing you are unable to answer the question as to here the Sun goes at night I do wonder if anything you say can be taken as credible.
    If only Jan was here he knows something of which you speak ..you and he would probably find common ground.
    Alex
     
  22. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 70 years old Valued Senior Member

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    Fantasy Island perhaps? Since I finally put Jan on Iggy, because I felt my IQ dropping (plus Huwey Dewey and Louie went on strike), what happened to Jan?

    I had clues Jan had gone from the answers of some posters

    kx 000 is on same path. No hint of discussion only rambling statements

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  23. Xelasnave.1947 Valued Senior Member

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    I feel Jan's presence .its like he is still here.
    I do hope he is alright and not gone under a bus or fallen off a tall building..he should be alright you know being on such good terms with you know who..and if hit by a tr inuck why would you worry given what awaits...in fact maybe he could not wait and tried to cash in his ticket to fantasy land.
    I am afraid to ask but are you home yet or still swiming?
    Alex
     

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