God is defined, not described.

Jan Ardena said,
Maybe you do, as their seems to be anger in your responses, even though you try to conceal it.
Xelasnave said,
I knew it.
I come over that way and is not me at all.
I don't want to seem angry when I am not.
What do I do or say that gives this impression and what can I do not to come over that way.
Sincerely Jan it worries me.
Because he wants you to feel angry and unfulfilled. It justified his irrational belief in a Savior.
You worry about not offending others, be they religious or not, whereas Jan very politely and patiently continues to offend atheists and show his superior and exclusive perspective on life and the universe.
 
Because he wants you to feel angry and unfulfilled. It justified his irrational belief in a Savior.
You worry about not offending others, be they religious or not, whereas Jan very politely and patiently continues to offend atheists and show his superior and exclusive perspective on life and the universe.
I thank you for your observation.

Ha making me angry and unfulfilled ...don't think so...welcome to try if that makes him happy.

His (or her) perception that I seem angry is after all may well be valid.
I am concerned that he may genuinely hold such s perception.

Folk in real life think I am tuff and mean which is opposite to the real me.

They see you in a fight (only two in fifteen years have they witnessed) or an arm wrestle and they forget all the times you are un noticeable.

But I do worry why folk can get such a incorrect impression.

I don't get angry. In a fight I become remarkably cool and focused, my training taught me if you get angry you lose.

Besides I am gentle and kind.

Even the god was unable to get me angry, mind you I will fake anger as a tactic to gain advantage, like a shout in skyrim.

The god gave it his best shot and any anger would be me just messing with his head.

I hope you are wrong about Jan. I like Jan as I have said I find him ( or her) most entertaining.

I find it interesting he holds beliefs made up by folk who did not know better.

And if your observation is valid I could only feel sorry for Jan as that would point more to low self esteem than perhaps an intentional malice.

And if he suffers low self esteem it could easily come from an early indoctrination ... Who knows what causes folk to lose faith in themselves and seek an invisible friend.
They should be pitied an concern extended for their sad plight.

Low self esteem I regard as the worst condition a human can experience.

Well there are worse things but for me I tend to worry about those with low self esteem.

They will punish themselves with guilt yet on the outside will present as confident even arrogant often critical of others focusing on flaws they imagine in others but are actually things they hate about themselves.

They find compassion for others difficult because they have little for themselves.

I don't think Jan is suffering low self esteem he has his world view and for whatever reason seems to hold on to it with a firm grip.
He does well given all like to argue that he is wrong... And he may be wrong but that is not particularly relevant to my point.

I hold my world view similar.
I don't buy the nonsense made up for fools to hold others in control, causing them to hate themselves through guilt...you are a sinner crap.
JC died for you because if mans sin.
God gave you clothes to protect you from sin.
You can make a list.

Jan does, and I have probably have said this before now, maybe not, reminds me of an attractive woman at a bar or party holding court with all those men thinking they will be the one she will fall for.

They each try to impress but she sidesteps each advance causing the next to try his stuff.

She enjoys her ability to, in her view, to have them all running in circles with her remaining distant and aloof but nevertheless the center of attention.

Jan may like being the center of attention but I see no harm there at all.


Alex
 
Well you probably need something if you are to "show" anything.

I don't.

But I can understand that you would not wish to share your list of weaknesses, and I assume as you use the plural you are dealing with a list of weaknesses.

Can you elaborate on what it is you understand?

I don't think I have any weaknesses that I perceive, could that been thought of as a weakness.

Thinking you have no weaknesses?
I would have thought so.

I become self conscious and sometimes feel I may come over as not peaceful, not particularly tolerant nor always respectful.

Why?

I was suggesting something else. Read what you said then consider my answer.

*Shrug*

Dave pointed out generalisation he seems to think it is a bad thing...what do you think?

I think he can think what he likes.

Yes. I don't like being labeled really.
It is so limiting.

I'm not labelling you atheist. You are, as the label suggests, atheist. Unless you're not.

Sorry it is s rather crude joke but serves to illustrate how I feel to be simply called an atheist... It is such an insignificant aspect of who I am.

Good joke. Unfortunately the best jokes tend to be crude.

But, to shag a goat is pretty remarkable.
At least for some. :)

Yes but we are guessing I suppose.

Not in this case.
Holistically, atheists are without God.
They can of course question the existence of God. They can claim there is no evidence. Like Dave they can think and say what they like. But one thing is for sure, there is no God as far as they are aware.

Well that is fine belief will provide that answer every time.

In what way does belief provide answers?

So you have it all figured out that must be great.
You don't see any problems with that?

In one breath you seem like you're in some kind of understanding, then the punchlines reveals you're not. I get the strategy, but, it wastes time.

Anyways. Beliefs aren't set in stone.
My theism is consistent. Why do think there is a problem with beliefs being consistent?

What do I do or say that gives this impression and what can I do not to come over that way.
Sincerely Jan it worries me.

I'll point it out as you do it. But pretty much the whole, crushing, hurting, and teaching a lesson thing is part of what I'm talking about.

I have no fear of being wrong about God being fictional, obviously, if I feared being wrong

As an atheist, it would be pretty strange if you had a fear for something, that for all intent and purpose, does not exist.

It pretty strange people like yourself feel the need to defend, effectively nothing, not to mention amusing.

Sorry I miss your point entirely.
I can't marry your response to my proposition.

A psychopath is without compassion, and empathy. An atheist is without God.

There is nothing to stop a psychopath from conducting a detailed scientific, and philosophical study of compassion and empathy. Neither is there anything to stop the atheist from conducting studies on God, and theism.

While they can be as rigorous as rigorous can be. They can never know what they are, because you have to experience them to truly understand.

Atheist cannot experience God, there is nothing judgemental about it. It is a fact.

Jan.
 
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I find it interesting he holds beliefs made up by folk who did not know better.

I could only feel sorry for Jan as that would point more to low self esteem


it could easily come from an early indoctrination ...

Who knows what causes folk to lose faith in themselves and seek an invisible friend.


They should be pitied an concern extended for their sad plight.

I regard [Low self esteem] as the worst condition a human can experience.

And here's me thinking we were bonding. :)

Are you the groundwork for something?
:rolleyes:

Jan.
 
An atheist has no reason to believe that any of the hundreds of Gods throughout Human history, exist.
 
Can you elaborate on what it is you understand?
Not really Jan.
I would have thought my meaning was clear.
I would have thought so.
Thanks.
One can only wonder.
A desire to be decent and kind.
You will miss the irony..
I think he can think what he likes.
That is obvious, I sought your opinion on generalisation not Dave's view.
Anyways your answer is funny even cute.
I'm not labelling you atheist. You are, as the label suggests, atheist. Unless you're not.
I am happy to wear the label it just seems so trivial and silly..I mean I would not introduce myself.. Hi I am Alex the atheist.
Good joke. Unfortunately the best jokes tend to be crude.
I should not have posted it and am sorry that I did.
They can claim there is no evidence. L
And they would be right there is none.
In what way does belief provide answers?
I am surprised you need to ask.
You are being cute no doubt.
In one breath you seem like you're in some kind of understanding, then the punchlines reveals you're not. I get the strategy, but, it wastes time.
I think you are imagining stuff Jan.
Beliefs aren't set in stone.
My theism is consistent. Why do think there is a problem with beliefs being consistent?
They appear set in stone.
Consistent can sit along stubborn both are not friendly with change.
But pretty much the whole, crushing, hurting, and teaching a lesson thing is part of what I'm talking about.
You seem unable to remember what was said a d moreover you are getting things wrong.
As an atheist, it would be pretty strange if you had a fear for something, that for all intent and purpose, does not exist.
We both state the obvious.
It pretty strange people like yourself feel the need to defend, effectively nothing, not to mention amusing.
Yes indeed amusing.
I find the concept of God amusing so I also find folk claiming God exists..its cute.
A psychopath is without compassion, and empathy. An atheist is without God.

There is nothing to stop a psychopath from conducting a detailed scientific, and philosophical study of compassion and empathy. Neither is there anything to stop the atheist from conducting studies on God, and theism.

While they can be as rigorous as rigorous can be. They can never know what they are, because you have to experience them to truly understand.

Atheist cannot experience God, there is nothing judgemental about it. It is an observation.

Thanks for trying to explain it.


Well its been nice Jan as always but we don't seem to uncover new ground.
Until you come up with something I will loosely call evidence nothing will change unless you have a change of heart.
There is only so many times we can go back and forth but frankly I seek more than repeating the same or similar sort if stuff.
There is little mental stimulation in the subject really.
All the best Jan.
Bye for now.
Alex
 
And here's me thinking we were bonding. :)
We are Jan, we are.
You can see how I was defending your position, I know you don't need that but I cant help looking out for folk.
Are you the groundwork for something?
I am not sure what you mean but I am not preparing to crush you if you are still on that trip.

I admit I did float off a little.

I can't help thinking about you and others who actually believe there is a God.

I find it so puzzling fascinating and cute.

You strike me as intelligent so I just find it incomprehensible that you believe there is a God.

I know you do but for me it is like believing in Santa or Peter Pan.

I just am surprised more than anything that folk who believe like you, and you, exist. Don't get me wrong I really respect your right to believe I do have difficulty in accepting folk really truly accept what I see as a fairy tale.

Its like a mate I had once he believed in Tarot cards, finally I realised he really truly believed in their predictive power, and he was so capable, build anything repair your car, and yet gave up all his reason to embrace nonsense.

I don't get it.

I mean you expect primitive people to foster superstition but to encounter a modern human believing stuff that is pure fantasy ... Well I find it hard to get my head around.

A anyways good luck.

There is nothing more to discuss.
Alex
 
Well its been nice Jan as always but we don't seem to uncover new ground.

Do you really think "nice" describes our conversations.

Until you come up with something I will loosely call evidence nothing will change unless you have a change of heart.

I've come up with loads Alex, maybe you're not paying full attention. Perhaps you are somewhat distracted.

There is little mental stimulation in the subject really.

I imagine putting effort into defending nothing, the opposite of mental stimulation.


Jan.
 
I find it so puzzling fascinating and cute.

Ahhhhh! How patronising is that. :rolleyes:

It would actually mean something g if you weren't an atheist.

You strike me as intelligent so I just find it incomprehensible that you believe there is a God.

I know you do.
It's because you're atheist.

know you do but for me it is like believing in Santa or Peter Pan.

I totally get it.

I just am surprised more than anything that folk who believe like you, and you, exist.

Would you rather we didn't exist?

Don't get me wrong I really respect your right to believe I do have difficulty in accepting folk really truly accept what I see as a fairy tale.

Oh I can see you respect me.

I mean you expect primitive people to foster superstition but to encounter a modern human believing stuff that is lure fantasy

Does it bother you Alex.
I only ask because you seem to bothered
Forget I said that. Maybe I had a little too much coffee this morning.

Well I find it hard to get my head around.

It does bother you. Doesn't it.
Perhaps we should stop discussing.
Bye Alex.

Jan.
 
Do you really think "nice" describes our conversations.
Yes I do Jan.
Pleasant and sweet....nice.
I've come up with loads Alex, maybe you're not paying full attention. Perhaps you are somewhat distracted.
Sure Jan I missed the evidence and you do not feel inclined to go thru it again.
I understand.
Perhaps you are somewhat distracted.
Perhaps.
I imagine putting effort into defending nothing, the opposite of mental stimulation.
You tell me.
It would seem you defend something that is not there I am just here because I enjoy a nice chat.
I am going out to do some astronomy.
Alex
 
Yes I do Jan.
Pleasant and sweet....nice.

Okay.

Sure Jan I missed the evidence and you do not feel inclined to go thru it again.
I understand.

You didn't miss the evidence Alex,
You are impervious to the evidence.
As long as your atheist, there is no God, or evidence of God.

You tell me.
It would seem you defend something that is not there I am just here because I enjoy a nice chat

It does seem like that. Doesn't it.
But that merely emphasises the fact that you are here talking about nothing, and defending it.
It's all about the atheist Alex. They are the ones that lack.

Have fun with your astronomy.

Jan.
 
the OP title states; "God is defined, not described" even as these terms are synonymous
Oxford Dictionaries ·

In 37 pages of discussion I have not found a single definition or description of God, except a generality of God as the creative force which is either experienced or not experienced.
A form of "elan vital" (Bergson), which is accessible by a theist, but inaccessible by atheists.
Author and popular theologian C.S. Lewis rejected Bergson's concept in his essay The Weight of Glory stating "...even if all the happiness they promised could come to man on earth, yet still each generation would lose it by death, including the last generation of all, and the whole story would be nothing, not even a story, for ever and ever. Hence all the nonsense that Mr. Shaw puts into the final speech of Lilith, and Bergson’s remark that the élan vital is capable of surmounting all obstacles, perhaps even death—as if we could believe that any social or biological development on this planet will delay the senility of the sun or reverse the second law of thermodynamics."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Élan_vital

An unproductive exercise in mysticism, IMO.
 
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I'm not convinced of that. I think Jan knows perfectly well he's not arguing in good faith. He does not speak like someone who believes what he says, he speaks like someone who's trolling and enjoying the attention. There's no consequence to him simply repeating his mantras over and over while ignoring refutations. And we are enabling this abysmal behavior. :rolleyes:

Why are you attacking someone who seeks the truth ? Scientists do that ! They are revealing the wonders of God's work. Does anybody "understand" quarks ? OK we can calculate and predict the behaviour of quarks, using the reasoning powers guided by the Holy Spirit, but only God understands the Force that holds them together. If you think you understand Quantum mechanics, then you don't !
 
Why are you attacking someone who seeks the truth ? Scientists do that ! They are revealing the wonders of God's work. Does anybody "understand" quarks ? OK we can calculate and predict the behaviour of quarks, using the reasoning powers guided by the Holy Spirit, but only God understands the Force that holds them together. If you think you understand Quantum mechanics, then you don't !
Give this man a Nobel prize for having solved the mystery of Quarks and Quantum Mechanics. God did it! Who would have thunk it?
 
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the OP title states; "God is defined, not described" even as these terms are synonymous Oxford Dictionaries ·

In 37 pages of discussion I have not found a single definition or description of God, except a generality of God as the creative force which is either experienced or not experienced.
A form of "elan vital" (Bergson), which is accessible by a theist, but inaccessible by atheists. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Élan_vital

An unproductive exercise in mysticism, IMO.

So don't participate.
Treat this thread like this one http://www.sciforums.com/threads/imperative.160330/.

jan.
 
Why are you attacking someone who seeks the truth ?
He is demonstrably not seeking truth; he is seeking validation of his own ego, as witnessed by his retreat to, and repetition of, his mantra, whenever his atrocious logic is challenged.


They are revealing the wonders of God's work.
Since the discussion's premise is that God has not been shown as existing, that's just a smidge premature.
 
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