god is perfection?????????

matthew 5:48: Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

lets clarifying what we mean by "perfect". something that "contains all potentialities", "without flaw".

The idea of a perfect being creating the universe is self-contradictory. How can perfection be improved upon? To create is to indicate a lack, an imperfection. a flaw

If a perfect being needs to create something then it isn’t perfect. To be perfect is to lack nothing.

“Perfect beings would not be troubled by anything, including the behavior of humans. Hence, the notion that a god would reward or punish us is absurd. To be perfect is to be unperturbed. The concept of perfection, therefore, requires that a god be indifferent to human behavior.”

therefore as god is flawed, he cant be all knowing or all powerful thus not devine, so simply put non-existent.




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God is perfect. He is Spirit. And He is Mighty. Look around!. His creation would have been deeply flawed if it did not contain creatures with free will.

God presents us with situations and we make choices. He does not expect us to be perfect. How could He show His patience with us if we were perfect?
You greatly underestimate His wisdom in this.

peace

c20

 

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Perfection

Many people have told me that in order to find God, one must seek him. To me this has always seemed somewhat bizarre a notion. The world’s most powerful, and arguably the world’s most loving being, and he resorts to hiding in the shadows. This being that many would claim is the source of light, seems more comfortable in the darkness, in the void where man cannot reach.

However, I came to the conclusion that God is somewhat similar to Bigfoot. Three hundred years Bigfoot has roamed this planet, and yet he has only been seen a dozen times. Those of us who truly seek Bigfoot must truly search for him. You don’t just wake up one day and find Bigfoot, so there’s no reason to believe God would be any different. And so eventually I found myself searching: I looked under the sofa, I shuffled through the closet, and I picked up every rock that lay in my garden for sign of this being. I bought a submarine and explored the depths of the ocean, I stole the Hubble Space Telescope to view the depths of the big black expanse above us, and I purchased a dune buggy that was on special offer in Toys R Us to search the arid desert regions. All of this ended up in futility, and having explored this planet and beyond to an extreme degree, I couldn’t even find a molecule going by the name of God.

And then my son died.

You would be amazed at how sobering the death of a son can be. You would be amazed at how many questions scurry through your mind like ants on a summer night. You would be amazed at how much you need answers. There was no anger, which comes later in the process, just a general lack of understanding. I asked the doctors, and they gave me an explanation. I asked the priest who also gave me an explanation. I asked the rabbi, the philosopher, the Buddhist, the man who painted my fence and the woman at the bus stop. All of them gave me an answer. As you will know, no human is perfect, and yet they all answered me. The one being that is perfect declined from comment. What does this say of perfection?

When I really sought an answer, everyone helped. God hid. When I really needed help, everyone tried their best, even with all their imperfections. God hid.

What do we conclude about the all loving, perfect being that seems to find hide and seek so enjoyable, even at a time when man is at his very lowest? Do we claim him loving or caring, or even all knowing, when at best he cannot help when people ask, he cannot speak when people need to hear, he cannot feel when people need a shoulder to lean on?

I would of course dare one man to say I was not humble. To that man I would ask he experience the death of a son to know what humility is. To know what it is like to be powerless, and yet to seek answers, and to seek help. I did just that, and those who answered did not hide, but became more visible. God just crawled further into the void. It was incredible to see all the people that came to me. They did not ask that I seek them and they did not ask that I must find or want them. They came to me without asking, and simply out of love and out of kindness. Where was God through all of this? Nobody knows. Perhaps he was vacationing in a galaxy far far away. The strange thing is though, that my mother, who was vacationing far far away, still managed a response.

The very word ‘love’ becomes as worthless as a car with no wheels, and ‘perfection’ can only be seen in the imperfect. And so we have something to think about. In this case, isn’t the imperfect perfect? And isn’t the perfect imperfect? Where the perfect has failed, which goes against the very definition of perfect, the imperfect has succeeded. While we have no need to expect anything from imperfection, that luxury does not extend to perfection which by very definition does not have a choice in the matter.

I have the feeling that eventually I will meet God and ask him why he wasn’t there when I needed him most. To this he will undoubtedly respond: “Nobody’s perfect”.

(c) Steve 2004

 

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c20 can you read do you understand anything, it says if your god is perfect he had no need to create, if he created then he is flawed and not perfect.
it's that simple.
if it's perfect then it never created humans, they never came into the equation.

 

Maybe god didn't create the universe, maybe it has always been there, bigbangin...

Maybe the perfect must include everything, even the imperfect... but it doesn't realy include nothing... and it doesn't include everything... it is void... all inclusive, non inclusive... impossible to explain.

 

Fahrenheit 451, you're right, God didn't need to create.

 

to what768 first,

but according to the bible it created man.(which makes it flawed)

to BeyondTAS, same answer then it's flawed, not perfect.

to philopastry, no a man and freezing.

 

Love gives. It is better to give than to receive.

peace

c20

 

WTF has that got to do with the original premis.
for f@*# sake, man.
make sense, or shut the f@*# up.

 

To which I replied, it is perfect to 'give'.
To 'give' requires others to 'receive' that which is being given. Love wouldn't be love if it was not 'giving' would it? God created us to show us His love. This is the purpose of creation. It is a perfect gift.

PSA.16:8 I have set the Lord always before me: because He is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.

JOH.6:68,69 Simon Peter answered Him, Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the Words of eternal life. And we believe and are sure that Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

peace

c20

 

I am sorry c20, it would be cruel of me to continue.
I am not going to have a battle of wits, with no-brained man. it would be unfair, you would avoid the answer anyway, and preach.
enough said, bye
oh and go and see that doctor, really.

 

bye. nice to have met you

 

That was the only perfect answer. What everybody else told you was insufficient, I'm sure you noticed. If any of their answers sufficed, you wouldn't have continued asking.

 

nice to see you again jenyar, but duh, I might be amoeba-man two.
no that's not possible.
can you elaborate please.

 

If you are asking God, you must believe in Him or who are you asking? Since then you come face to face with God almighty, you would know that God is a God of the living.
He doesn't need to say anything to you if you are in His presence. In His presence you just have peace.

Thanks

amoeba-man

 

Yo Dudes,

That`s a moving piece SnakeLord. Amidst the madness, I have found great beauty in the simple kindness of many people that I`ve met. To appreciate the value and beauty of this aspect of the human condition is to truly awaken. I do feel sad for those amongst us who need a supernatural friend to move them to love, when so much love is so simply apparent. The one sure thing I know is that perfection is an illusion.

Here is the Gnostic take on perfection or rather lack of it. The Catholic Church crushed the Gnostic movement in the early days of Christian infighting.

"Like Buddhism, Gnosticism begins with the fundamental recognition that earthly life is filled with suffering. In order to nourish themselves, all forms of life consume each other, thereby visiting pain, fear, and death upon one another (even herbivorous animals live by destroying the life of plants). In addition, so-called natural catastrophes -- earthquakes, floods, fires, drought, volcanic eruptions -- bring further suffering and death in their wake. Human beings, with their complex physiology and psychology, are aware not only of these painful features of earthly existence. They also suffer from the frequent recognition that they are strangers living in a world that is flawed and absurd.

Many religions advocate that humans are to be blamed for the imperfections of the world. Supporting this view, they interpret the Genesis myth as declaring that transgressions committed by the first human pair brought about a “fall” of creation resulting in the present corrupt state of the world. Gnostics respond that this interpretation of the myth is false. The blame for the world’s failings lies not with humans, but with the creator. Since -- especially in the monotheistic religions -- the creator is God, this Gnostic position appears blasphemous, and is often viewed with dismay even by non-believers."

From: http://www.gnosis.org/gnintro.htm

This view scared the pants of the Catholics, so the poor Gnostics suffered the predictable persecution and torture for their beliefs. If you can`t beat them, kill them. The link givess access to the entire Nag Hammadi texts.

Smooth.

 

There are two levels of perfection. Metaphysical perfection and absolute perfection.

God is the name for metaphysical perfection. If god is not perfect then it should not be called god.
Man created perfection in the notion of zero, an absolute perfection.

 

There are several ways of responding to this:

A) My son died 6 years ago now, and I have not "continued asking". As such we must note that along the line somewhere an answer did suffice. The answer that did suffice still didn't come from this all-loving, perfect god, but from a human.

B) I wouldn't have needed to "continue asking", if the all-loving, perfect god had have responded to the plea for help. I am sure he has a busy schedule, but a perfect being would have taken ten seconds to have given the answer. You state that everybody's answer was insufficient. While that might be true to a degree, given their lack of knowledge of medical issues and so on, the point is that at least they tried.

As my story says, in this case the imperfect has been perfect - even if the answers weren't 100% accurate, and the perfect has shown itself as imperfect, by not answering at all.

C) While silence might have been the perfect answer for you, you have no right to extend your thoughts as being the same as mine.

Thanks. It's in the process of being altered and added to, but I got so sick of the words "imperfect" and "perfect", I needed a break

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Fahrenheit, you assume that because God created implies that God needed to create. The assumption is baseless.

 

I would conject that God did need to create, else he wouldn't have done it. He wanted witnesses to the power of The Word of God which was God and was with God.
This is why God said "Let us make living beings like us, in Our image". God is invisible, but He has an image of Himself and can create from nothing by breathing the Word of God. So He made us to be like Him, in His image that we may know The Living Word. Jesus was The Word made flesh.

peace

c20