# Gravitational field has no chasing effect

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience' started by TonyYuan, Feb 27, 2021.

1. ### TonyYuanGravitational Fields and Gravitational WavesRegistered Senior Member

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Possible reason:
1. If the speed of the gravitational field is c, then it must be very special and there is no chasing effect.

2. If the gravitational field has a chasing effect, just like the Doppler effect of light, then the speed of the gravitational field will not be c, but much greater than c. The finite velocity of any object can be ignored, and the gravitational action is instantaneous .

I am back.

3. ### foghornRegistered Senior Member

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I maybe wrong but...
Theoretically a gravitational field is infinite in extent, it is the disturbances in that field which move at c.

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5. ### exchemistValued Senior Member

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A static field has no speed, and involves no waves. Therefore there is no Doppler effect.

We've been round this loop numerous times. I see no point in you wasting your time and ours on yet another thread on the same topic, when you are incapable of learning.

I assume you are back because you've been thrown out of all the other forums, except that nutcase forum.

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7. ### TonyYuanGravitational Fields and Gravitational WavesRegistered Senior Member

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Why the disturbances speed is not infinite ?
The sun is flying, is there any disturbance in the gravity of the planet?
Do we need to calculate this gravitational disturbance when calculating planetary orbits?

In fact, this disturbance does not exist, there may be two reasons:
1. If the speed of the gravitational field is c, then it must be very special and there is no chasing effect.

2. If the gravitational field has a chasing effect, just like the Doppler effect of light, then the speed of the gravitational field will not be c, but much greater than c. The finite velocity of any object can be ignored, and the gravitational action is instantaneous .

Last edited: Feb 27, 2021
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8. ### foghornRegistered Senior Member

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Because it would mean information ( the disturbance ) travelling faster than c.

9. ### TonyYuanGravitational Fields and Gravitational WavesRegistered Senior Member

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Why can't it be greater than c?
Has anyone accurately measured this speed? Is it c or c+1, or c-1?

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10. ### James RJust this guy, you know?Staff Member

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What is a chasing effect?

Why?

What gravitational action?

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11. ### Janus58Valued Senior Member

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Yes they have measured it. These disturbances travel as gravitational waves. Waves from the same source have been detected by two different detectors( Virgo and LIGO) which are separated from each other by a known distance. If these disturbances traveled at infinite speed, They would have had to detect them simultaneously. They did not as it took time between the waves reaching one detector, and then reaching the other.
In 2017, we were able to detect both the gravitational waves and electromagnetic signature of a single event ( the fusion of two neutron stars). Since the electromagnetic signal and gravitational waves arrived at the same time, they obviously traveled at the same speed.

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12. ### TonyYuanGravitational Fields and Gravitational WavesRegistered Senior Member

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The process can be explained by a visual example. Suppose a gun fires at a speed of n bullets per second, the bullet with a velocity Vb generates an impact force F on a static trolley. Now use this gun to shoot a trolley with a constant speed V and seek the bullet’s average impact force on the trolley in T.

Step1: Calculate the total displacement of the trolley s = T*V;
Step2: Calculate the total bullet number Nb= T*n;
Step3: Calculate the time when the trolley cannot be hit T'= s/Vb = T*V/ Vb;
Step4: Calculate the number of bullets that can hit the car Ns = n*(T –T' ) = T*n* (Vb– V)/ Vb;
Step5: Calculate the average impact force F(V) = F*(Vb– V)/ Vb.

We can also get the equation from the chasing effect between the bullet and the trolley and find the average impact force of a bullet is a function of its velocity V.
When V = 0, the trolley is static and the average impact force of a bullet is F.
When V = bullet’s velocity Vb, the average impact force of a bullet is 0.

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13. ### TonyYuanGravitational Fields and Gravitational WavesRegistered Senior Member

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The change in the position of the sun will definitely cause gravitational disturbances, which will affect the planets in the solar system,
so why do we not consider these when calculating the orbits of the planets? (For planets very close to the sun, so this kind of disturbance cannot be ignored. )

The sun is flying, and the gravitational field generated by the sun cannot be static. The density of the gravitational field around the same distance from the sun must be different.

I think there is no essential difference between this gravitational disturbance and the water wave disturbance caused by ships.

Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
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14. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member

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foghorn has run off and wont answer the question

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16. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member

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ok
its still just another theory
it has proof of evidence of hard science, but it does not rule out other unknown variables.
purely for example
if the gravitational effect changed the speed at which the electromagnetic waves traveled, different to a black hole effect ?
is it the same ? (can this question be answered yet? i dont think so)

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17. ### TonyYuanGravitational Fields and Gravitational WavesRegistered Senior Member

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This is a good question.
If the speed of the gravitational field is a finite speed c, then many phenomena are indeed difficult to explain. For example, why the planetary orbit is not affected by the disturbance caused by the sun's flight.

18. ### RainbowSingularityValued Senior Member

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https://www.sciencemag.org/news/202...edented-collision-heavy-and-light-black-holes

is this where Einstein started to consider "unified field theory" ?

Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
19. ### TonyYuanGravitational Fields and Gravitational WavesRegistered Senior Member

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I don’t know. We assumed that the gravitational field has a chasing effect, and derived the gravitational equation F(v)=GMm/R^2*[(c-v)/c], and applied it to the calculation of planetary orbits, It was discovered that planetary orbital energy is no longer conserved. Taking the earth as an example, it only takes 6600 years to escape from the solar system.

So we guess that the speed of gravity is not c, but much greater than c.
Or the gravitational field is very special, and there is no chasing effect.

This is very similar to the disturbance of water waves caused by two fish in the water.

Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
20. ### river

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16,231
Three dimensional . In water and air .

Gravity is frictional based . Therefore can not exceed light speed .

Gravity Field Propagates Outward from the Source , Not Inward .

Hence is not Really a " gravitational field " .

Last edited: Feb 28, 2021