Gravity slows down time.

[Lakon]

Yes, perhaps if one lived on Saturn, you might use those rotations, why not? And, I did give the correct answer. My question is why you and others do not think so. Perhaps you folks should define what you all mean by time since I have done that precisely. So, this is not about me, it is about bout you all.

Now, using only astronomical observations I can convert between the 2 times.

So, this is not relative but absolute.

You see, what is up and down? What is north and south? One chooses some time standard such as the earth's motion to define time. Of course, Einstein claimed time varies based on motion and gravity, but that only means that clock deviated from the defined standard. Both observers stills agree on the earth's position, hence they must also agree upon the standard time definition. We have no choice but to conclude if clocks deviate from the standard, they did not live different times, some clock is wrong compared to the standard that all parties agree upon..

Chinglu, Thanks again for above the reply.

I note your Yes, perhaps if one lived on Saturn, you might use those rotations, why not?

So we would have a different time reality on Saturn.

I do have more to say about this, but will leave it in abeyance at the moment. I really need first, to see your specific response to RW's post #759 - that's really important for my understanding. I know you probably think you have answered it somewhere in the above several posts, but it's not clear to me, and my mind in these things is quite simple, so please, it won't take you much to click onto that post (#759) and provide a direct answer to RW, as also, I do not want to be seen to be arguing his point. Thanks.

 

[chinglu]

Only in your befuddled brain.

Again, for the umpteenth time, why don't you take this idea of yours and get it peer reviewed?
I mean we all here don't know what we are talking about.
So get it peer reviewed...and insist that all science, all physics and our everyday lives must now change because of your momentious discovery.

Go on chinglu, go make a difference to the world!

troll

 

[paddoboy]

Paddo. At this sensitive juncture, the 'end game' is manifest in the side-discussion between chinglu and Russ Watters, as is being increasingly narrowed and clarified (and effectively 'mediated') by Lakon's pertinent questioning.

Please leave it alone for a while until the three parties involved have come to some final common understanding that overcomes the obvious cross-purpose perils so far involved. Patience! Thanks, mate.

I came in for one reason Undefined.....And that was the village Idiot firing another shot across my bows.
If he wants to keep playing, I'll oblige.


PS; He says he has me on ignore, but I don't believe it for one minute.....

 

[paddoboy]

troll

Why?????
That's what great men do if and when they come up with an innovative, Imaginary, beneficial idea........
Why come here if you are so sure you have discovered a flaw in SR?
These forums do attract pseudoscience and conspiracy pushers, so show us all you are not one of them.........or otherwsie the "troll "tag is reversed.

 

[chinglu]

Why?????
That's what great men do if and when they come up with an innovative, Imaginary, beneficial idea........
Why come here if you are so sure you have discovered a flaw in SR?
These forums do attract pseudoscience and conspiracy pushers, so show us all you are not one of them.........or otherwsie the "troll "tag is reversed.

This issue here is showing the OP is false.

You have not done that.

 

[paddoboy]

This issue here is showing the OP is false.

You have not done that.

Who said it was false????
It's patently true and factual.....


Again, if you are so sure of your claims invalidating SR/GR, get it peer reviewed.
Why come to a pseudoscience forum, with such Innovative vast knowledge?


The OP

Gravity slows down time.

 

[paddoboy]

Who said it was false????
It's patently true and factual.....


Again, if you are so sure of your claims invalidating SR/GR, get it peer reviewed.
Why come to a pseudoscience forum, with such Innovative vast knowledge?


The OP

Gravity slows down time.

Other then the heading of course, the rest of your OP, has been invalidated on 40 pages with over 780 posts.
You think you would have learned by now.

 

[paddoboy]

Chinglu???
You taking up that English course??

Here it is again...

http://www.austinpartners.org/reading

 

[paddoboy]

This may help also chinglu....Obviously English is not this blokes first language either so perhaps you can relate to it............


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYWM2oZgi4E


Hope that helps.

 

[Russ_Watters]

No, you are wrong. I answered the question directly.

You folks think time is some fuzzy concept no grounded in reality.

Neither of those are true. Time is not a complicated concept from a functional standpoint and you have not answered the question which was to define what a clock is/does.

Since you don't even have an elementary-school understanding of what time is and how it works, it is unsurprising that the more complicated issues in Relativity escape you.

 

[Russ_Watters]

You have no idea what you are talking about. The choice was made to define seconds of the earth's rotation rather than the orbit causing leap seconds to occur.

Just as leap years keep our calendar approxi-mately synchronized with the Earth’s orbit about the Sun, leap seconds keep precise clocks in synchronization with the rotating Earth, the traditional “clock” that humans have used to determine time. Coordinated Universal Time (UTC), created by adjusting International Atomic Time (TAI) by the appropriate number of leap seconds, is the uniform time scale that is the basis of most civil timekeeping in the world. The concept of a leap second was introduced to ensure that UTC would not differ by more than 0.9 second from UT1, the time determined by the rotation of the Earth — a choice made pri marily to meet the requirements for celestial navigation.
http://iraf.noao.edu/~seaman/leap/GPS-Nov99_Innov.pdf

Therefore, the purpose of GPS clocks is to match the earth's rotation to perfection. So, you are wrong.

Again: leap seconds are not applied to GPS clocks. I was trying to be concise so you wouldn't have trouble following it, but here is the entire sentence:

The difference is that GPS time is not corrected to match the rotation of the Earth, so it does not contain leap seconds or other corrections that are periodically added to UTC.

You really should check the link if you don't believe me. Or find your own.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System#Timekeeping
[edit] Oh, well, you did have your own, but you didn't read it:

The introduction of a leap second
does not affect GPS operations because its
time system is GPS Time, which is not
adjusted to account for leap seconds.

 

[paddoboy]

In any event, we base our concept of time to the earth's motion like I said.

Otherwise, if you think I an evading, let's see you folks connect your definition of second to nothing in the real external world other than say some frequency.

Then prove that definition is not tied to the earth's motion.

Yep, we base our concept of "LOCAL" time on familiar astronomical events for conveniance sake...absolutely 100% correct.
But as you suggest, I could also get a clock and base its concept on the number of time I move my bowels per day...This is quite a regular systematic occurrence.

Now for the sake of this exersise let's say someone else's bowel movements and clock are synchronised perfectly with mine.

If he took a trip into deep space his bowel movements would still be in sync with his clock, but if by some magical means, they viewed me back on Earth, they would notice my bowel movements, although still in sync with my clock, taking a bit longer when compared with the travellers bowel movements.

Both the other blokes clock and bowel movements [the travellers] and my own both still appear as normal within our own FoR, but when compared and brought together again, my clock which is still in sync with my bowel movements, is out of sync with the other blokes bowel movements and what his clock says.
Time Dilation [gravitational] has caused the traveller's clock and his bowel movements to be slowed when "COMPARED " to myself and my clock.

So you now can see that what "YOU ALONE"are saying about a clock being somehow tied to the Earth's movements, is nothing short of ridiculous.
I could alternatively synchronise my clock with the time I have my meals each day, which is also regular.

 

[chinglu]

Neither of those are true. Time is not a complicated concept from a functional standpoint and you have not answered the question which was to define what a clock is/does.

Since you don't even have an elementary-school understanding of what time is and how it works, it is unsurprising that the more complicated issues in Relativity escape you.

You can think what you want. But, I proved the human concept of time relates to the earth's rotation. That is what humans say a clock does. It measures the earth's rotation

Your problem now is to prove that is false even given the link I provided for GPS.

So, have at it.

 

[paddoboy]

You can think what you want. But, I proved the human concept of time relates to the earth's rotation. That is what humans say a clock does. It measures the earth's rotation

Your problem now is to prove that is false even given the link I provided for GPS.

So, have at it.

LOL.....But the whole scientific world thinks that way, and operates on those observable effects everyday.
You have shown nothing...you have proved nothing, in fact all that you have said in this thread has been shown to be in gross error.
You must enjoy floundering in the well of ignorance.
You cannot even get your own links in sync with your ideas....
Arguing with you is like arguing with a 5 year old.

 

[chinglu]

Again: leap seconds are not applied to GPS clocks. I was trying to be concise so you wouldn't have trouble following it, but here is the entire sentence:


You really should check the link if you don't believe me. Or find your own.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System#Timekeeping
[edit] Oh, well, you did have your own, but you didn't read it:

Well, here is your own link.

The GPS navigation message includes the difference between GPS time and UTC. As of July 2012, GPS time is 16 seconds ahead of UTC because of the leap second added to UTC June 30, 2012.[105] Receivers subtract this offset from GPS time to calculate UTC and specific timezone values

Now, since GPS receivers subtract to supply UTC to the user, that is my view of GPS time.

Either way Coordinated Universal Time or UTC is as follows

The current version of UTC is defined by International Telecommunications Union Recommendation (ITU-R TF.460-6), Standard-frequency and time-signal emissions.[2] and is based on International Atomic Time (TAI) with leap seconds added at irregular intervals to compensate for the slowing of Earth's rotation.[3] Leap seconds keep UTC within 0.9 seconds of UT1.[4] In the 41 years up to and including 2012, a total of 25 leap seconds have been added; the most recent was added on 30 June 2012.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time

So, as you can see, humans measure time according to the earth's rotation as I said.

 

[chinglu]

LOL.....But the whole scientific world thinks that way, and operates on those observable effects everyday.
You have shown nothing...you have proved nothing, in fact all that you have said in this thread has been shown to be in gross error.
You must enjoy floundering in the well of ignorance.
You cannot even get your own links in sync with your ideas....
Arguing with you is like arguing with a 5 year old.

The fact is that the traveling twin witnessed 12 earth orbits and so did the stay at homer twin. So the both lived 12 earth orbits of time.

 

[Undefined]

Double post removed. Thanks.

 

[paddoboy]

The fact is that the traveling twin witnessed 12 earth orbits and so did the stay at homer twin. So the both lived 12 earth orbits of time.

Correct observation, wrong interpretation as usual.
They were in different FoRs, and one clock was gravitationally time dilated, so they both saw 12 Earth orbits at different recorded time intervals [both biologically and mechanically].

But that has been told to you now in over 796 posts and 40 pages.

 

[chinglu]

Correct observation, wrong interpretation as usual.
They were in different FoRs, and one clock was gravitationally time dilated, so they both saw 12 Earth orbits at different recorded time intervals [both biologically and mechanically].

But that has been told to you now in over 796 posts and 40 pages.

They can be in whatever they want.

Astronomical observations based on science say the both lived 12 earth orbits.

Are you claiming that astronomical observations are invalid?

 

[paddoboy]

They can be in whatever they want.

Astronomical observations based on science say the both lived 12 earth orbits.

Are you claiming that astronomical observations are invalid?

Again, as has been told to you in near 800 posts, they may see the same number of Earth Orbits, but because one is in another FoR, they see the same number of Earth orbits at different rates both biologically and mechanically.
This has been validated every day since 1905....