Happy Australia Day

The poll results, one of which I referred to above, are actually quite interesting when you drill down into the results. They are even more interesting when you look at the methodology. All of these polls, by the way, are from 2019.

paddoboy will be pleased to learn that one poll was run on behalf of the Institute of Public Affairs, a right-wing think tank and lobby group that, among other things, refuses to say who funds it (fossil fuel companies are strongly suspected to be the major donors). Another was run by Advance Australia, a right-wing nationalist group. A third was run by the progressive Australia Institute. A fourth was run by an essentially neutral source, Essential Polling.

The overall results?

IPA poll: of 1000 Australians, 75% agreed that "Australia day should be celebrated on 26 January", with 10% disagreeing.

Advance Australia poll: of 1659 people, 71% answered "no" to the question "Do you believe we should change the date of Australia day from 26 January to some other day?", and 29% answered "yes".

The Australia Institute poll: of 1417 people, 56% agreed with the statement "I don't mind when we hold Australia Day, as long as we have a day to celebrate being a nation.", while 36% disagreed.

The Essential Polling poll asked "Australia Day is celebrated annually on 26 January, which is the anniversary of the 1788 arrival of the First Fleet of British ships at Sydney Cove, New South Wales. Would you support or oppose changing the date on which Australia Day is celebrated?" 54% of people were opposed to changing the date, while 26% were in favour.
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As you can see, the questions that were put by the pollsters were all a little different. The IPA and Advance Australia hold up their results as evidence that a significant majority of people support the 26 January date. The Essential Poll, on the other hand, has a rather narrow majority in favour of retaining the 26 January date, while the Australia Institute says that a majority of Australian's aren't fussed about Australia day being held on 26 January.

In particular, the difference between the results from the IPA/Advance Australia and the Essential poll are quite striking, since similar questions were asked in all three polls. How can we account for the apparent discrepancy in results?

Part of the answer is in what information was given in the lead-up to asking the questions above, and what other questions were asked before this one. For instance, the IPA started by asking whether respondents were "proud to be Australian" (88% said yes), and whether Australia "has a history to be proud of" (76% said yes). Advance Australia started by asking people if they "feel proud to celebrate Australia Day on 26 January" (76% said yes). In follow-up questions to the one about the date, Advance Australia asked other questions about favoured pet topics of conservatives (e.g. "Do you believe Australia is becoming too politically correct?"). On the other hand, the Australia Institute had a long run of questions prior to the one about changing the date, interrogating people's feelings about January 26.

Clearly, all three of these organisations are seeking to influence debate around the date of Australia Day. Their polling methods try to "prime" people to be more likely to answer in the way that best supports the agenda or values of the organisation conducting the poll.
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What useful information can be gleaned from these polls as a group, then? One significant finding that stands out is that most Australians don't know why Australia Day is celebrated on 26 January in the first place, nor are they aware that there has only been a national celebration on that date since 1940. The Australia Institute survey asked whether Australia Day had always been held on 26 January (77% incorrectly said yes). It also asked what historical event happened on that date (only 38% of people were able to identify the First Fleet).

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Yet another survey by the Social Research Centre polled 2167 people on the question "To what extent do you agree or disagree that January 26 is the best day for our national day of celebration?" 70% of respondents agreed/strongly agreed that 26 Janauary is the best date. Other interesting findings of that poll:

• Support for 26 January increases with the respondent's age. It is 80% for Baby Boomers (aged 54-72 years), but only 47% for Generation Z (aged 23 or under).
• Support for 26 January is higher among those who do not have university degree (75%, compared to 55%).
• Support is higher in regional areas than it is in capital cities (78% vs. 66%).
• The political divide is stark. Support for 26 January runs at 94% for One Nation voters (One Nation is a nationalist party full of racists), 85% among Liberal/National coalition voters (The coalition consists of two conservative parties, despite the name) voters, 62% among Labor voters (Labor is a centre-left party), and only 38% among Greens voters (the Greens are a leftist party focused on environmental issues).
• Polled as to what they thought Australia day was about, 68% of respondents agreed that it celebrates the British heritage of Australia, 63% agreed that it celebrates democracy and our system of government, 58% agreed that that it celebrates the contributions of immigrants, and only 41% agreed that it celebrates Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander culture and heritage.

Interestingly, in this poll 46% of respondents agreed that Australia Day is offensive to Indigenous Australians. This is not 46% of indigenous respondents, mind you; it is 46% of all respondents. For comparison, the IPA poll put that figure at 37%, which isn't much lower.

The bottom line to all of this is probably this:

Nearly 3 in 10 (29%) of respondents who agree with keeping the 26 January date also recognise that the date is offensive to Indigenous Australians. In other words, while they are aware of Indigenous objections to the date, they don't care enough to want to change the date.

Says it all, really.

As a a final note, I'd say that paddoboy appears to fit rather neatly into the results summarised above, as an older (white) Australian who knows that the date is offensive to Indigenous people, although in his case he is willing to deny that in order to preserve the status quo.

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Sources for all of the above:
http://theconversation.com/new-research-reveals-our-complex-attitudes-to-australia-day-110035
https://www.buzzfeed.com/joshtaylor/australia-day-change-the-date-polling

 

paddoboy:

I don't think your reasons for wanting to retain the 26 January date have much to do with what Indigenous Australians want, even the ones you say are your friends. That's just my impression, mind you. I could be wrong.

Do you really want to open that particular can of worms again? I don't, but we can if you want to discuss it again. You came out of our last discussion on such matters looking very bad. Do you really want to put yourself through that again?

You'd probably be better off referring to what I actually wrote in that previous discussion we had, rather than making stuff up. Do you want me to dig up that old thread? Do you want to reopen that discussion?

I won't comment on this until you give me your consent to reopening your sexist attitudes as a discussion topic. Please let me know. I'm extending you this courtesy because I feel like you had a hard time of it last time we tackled the issue head on. You seem very set in your ways and you're obviously unwilling to change your unwelcome behaviour. Nevertheless, I don't want to put you through the wringer again unless you're really keen.

See my post above, in which I refer to 5 different polls. They make for interesting reading.

Note, however, that most of these did not break down the responses according to whether respondents were indigenous or not. We would expect that in a random poll of 1500 people, about 50 of the respondents might be indigenous. On the other hand, socioeconomic factors might make the actual numbers polled lower than that.

We'll have to wait and see, won't we? Attitudes are changing. You belong largely to a group of outdated dinosaurs when it comes to social awareness. It looks like a lot of the younger generation care a lot more about this stuff that you ever did. Granted, people tend to become more conservative as they grow older, and there's always the problem of a lack of education to contend with, so you might turn out to be right. We can always hope for gradual improvement though. I must say, though, it's hard to be optimistic in the current political climate. For now, you and your right-wing buddies have the upper hand.

I don't know what you think you're celebrating, until you tell me. That's why I asked. See my post above where you will find some diversity in what polled Australians believe Australia Day is about. For many, I'd say it's just another public holiday and an excuse to have a beer or two and put some snags on the barbie.

.... Actually, wait! I forgot. You told us all exactly what you were celebrating in your opening post. Here it is, in your own words:

celebrating the making of a Nation with the landing of the first fleet lead by Capt Arthur Phillip at Sydney Cove, Port Jackson [now Circular Quay] in 1788​

In other words, you wanted to remind us all that the Australian nation was "made" by white British people who first landed in Sydney in 1788. Since only 38% of respondents to the poll were aware of the significance of the 26 January date, you are wrong to assume that what they are celebrating is the same as what you're celebrating (proud British heritage and all that). See the poll results for what the rest of your fellow Australians think.

I accept that I did not give enough weight to your two words "Yep, acknowledged", which I assume you meant to convey what you've written here.

My motivation for commenting in the first place in this thread was that your triumphalism regarding the British occupation of Australia grated on me, given my awareness of Indigenous attitudes to the landing of the First Fleet, the idea of Terra Nullius and the rest.

After a little prodding, it turns out that you are proud to celebrate all of that, despite your professed sympathies for the plight of Australia's indigenous peoples.

Nothing I have said in this thread has been dishonest. I may have got a couple of things slightly wrong, but nobody is perfect. I do not set out to deceive people.

You speak of popular causes. Take a look at the polls I mentioned above. In light of those, would you say that changing the date of Australia Day is a popular cause? From where I'm sitting, I'd say it's looking decidedly unpopular. Never mind that it's probably the right thing to do.

Do you think that if I had indigenous friends it would make an iota of difference to what the polls say, or to the debate as to whether it would be appropriate to change the date? I agree that I might well be influenced by my friend's views if they were directly impacted. But you can't conclude that I'm wrong simply on the basis that I lack that kind of direct input. If you have 10 indigenous friends, their combined views on Australia Day only add 10 additional data points to the ones already collected in the surveys I have cited. Their views shouldn't be given special status or importance, though I can understand why you might be influenced by them.

 

paddoboy:

It's a little sad. I think that, by and large, your heart's often in the right place. But when it comes to digging in and trying to defend the indefensible, you're often your own worst enemy. Being older and having nostalgia for the traditions of the old days won't ever excuse a bad attitude or sub-standard behaviour, even if those attitudes and behaviours were tolerated by a majority in days gone by. Trying to defend poor behaviour with references to "political correctness gone mad" and similar just tends to expose your contempt for important contemporary social issues.

This isn't just about you. You just happen to be an example of a certain class of man who is front of us here and now. There are many men just like you who will no doubt agree with you wholeheartedly in your sexist views and your dismissal of concerns over things such the date of Australia day. They appear in the polls I mentioned, skewing the results away from what ought to be done towards preserving their own interests and status.

I kind of feel bad every time I make an example of you. But you so often insist on doubling down. It is only by speaking out against the kinds of ingrained attitudes that you have that we can hope to change the world for the better. The first step is raising awareness. I apologise if, in the process of using your posts as an example, you end up getting hurt. However, you can't say I didn't warn you.

You really don't understand what the fuss is about regarding the date of Australia Day, do you? You probably wonder why I'm banging on about an issue that is of very low importance in your world. For my part, I am keenly aware that this isn't really my argument to make, either. But indigenous Australians are thin on the ground on sciforums.

Always is a very long time. You might be surprised.

26 Jan wasn't the day in the past, and I'm guessing that at some point in the future, sooner or later, it won't be again.

No surprise at all that you regard this as political correctness gone mad. It's consistent behaviour for you - a failure to recognise that there's a problem that needs addressing.

If it were to become clear to you that a majority of Indigenous Australian object to 26 January as the date on which Australia Day is celebrated, would you then support a change of the date? It sounds like you wouldn't, given your stick-in-the-mud prediction that the date will "always" stay the same.

This is what I mean when I say that often your heart is in the right place. What is missing is the consistency: if this, then also that. A half-hearted support for indigenous recognition is better than no support at all, but consistent support would be better still.

Change only ever happens when minorities push for things that lack majority support. If people didn't waste their time on such things, women would not have the vote, schools would still have racial segregation, slavery would still be a thing in America, women would be even less represented in Parliament and the professions than they currently are, etc. etc.

I don't disagree with that. I can't speak for what you did or didn't do, of course. As an Australian, there's a lot to be proud of. There are also a lot of things to be ashamed of.

It's laughable that you would try to compare me to those guys. You really have no idea if you think there are any parallels there. Hopefully, you're not quite as stupid as you make out and this was just your weak attempt at an insult.

I think that, for now, I'll settle for merely linking to the previous thread. You are on record there, as I am. I invite readers to judge the matter of sexism for themselves, if they haven't already seen this and are interested enough to take a look:

http://www.sciforums.com/threads/punishing-women-for-false-accusation-of-rape.162149

Good for you.

Already there, paddoboy. Looks like I see it more clearly than you do. Probably too late for you to take the blinkers off now, I'm guessing.

Again, I'd urge you to be a better discriminator regarding who you choose to pay attention to. There are important and obvious differences between myself and either river or MR. You only have to look. If you think we're all equivalent, you're not looking nearly carefully enough. Switch on your brain.

Both of whom? Our answers to what? Where are the lies? What are you on about now?

Who? What?

 

There it is, from the horse's mouth...

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