Hell discovered to be real (FACT!)

Beautifully put, 402! Religion is utterly personal and for one person to say they have the truth is only to say "this is my belief", which cannot be argued from him. He, in turn, wants to convince others of his "truth" so that he can have a support group for it when he experiences doubt.
But what convinces him does not convince me. And threats of punishment if I don't accept his truth is a subtle act of war, something every religion should abhor.
But intelligent minds need to be stimulated by conversation, and the best conversation is borne of something one feels passionate about. That passion can sometimes turn warlike in it's zeal, but such is the ego of humankind.

~peace~
Hippie tkseeker@hotmail.com

 

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Thanks Hippie!

As you put it, the forcing of one's f/bs is at time very war like. (not verbatim)

It is my feeling that the time has come for all people to not use their f/bs as a shield in their personal/group "wars", but, rather turn the shield over and employ it as a serving dish from which all people may sample and learn with & through each other's perspectives.

The common thread that binds us all is there to be had if only we put aside the blinders that have held apart for so long. We have for centuries, been walking side by side and just haven't see each other.

There have been too many wars and hurt as a result of misguided/misunderstood f/bs.

Several thousand years is quite enough!

 

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Hippie, 402:

What is this? Are you directing these
posts at me or what?

-Dan

 

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Xeno,

No shots thrown Bro! your post is well taken in fact. You point out the difference between actuality and reality very well in your last post.

The gap between actuality and reality is the very thing that has brougth about so much division among the people of earth for so many centuries!

Shine one my friend!!

 

No, Dan, it wasn't meant for you in particular. I was responding to 402, who's post sounded pretty general to me. Don't be so sensitive!

~peace~
Hippie

 

By the way, the original topic to this string was this guy who said he heard a tape recording and someone told him it was hell. He believed it. He says it's proof that hell exists. Proof! He's the one I was saying was convinced and I wasn't. He's the one who posted again wondering what it will take to convince people that his belief is right and we're stupid to not join in. Good grief! How easily he can be fooled! He wasn't there in hell making this recording, was he? And nobody here (even you who believe in hell) has stepped up and pointed out that in order to record the sounds of hell one must travel there. Do you really believe you can turn left at Albuquerque and go X amount of miles and find hell?

Look, all I'm saying to him is: DON'T BELIEVE WHAT IS TOLD TO YOU, and if you do believe, don't insult me because I choose to be a little more demanding in my "proof" than you.


~peace~
Hippie

 

Yes hippie,
that is correct.

And what have I been saying all along
everyone?

Hell is nothing more than a state that
people go through; nothing more than a
state of sufferment

-Dan

 

Hippie,

It seems as if you are making it sound like my belief is based on this sound clip I heard. The fact is, I don't need proof or evidences that hell is real, because I know it is. And this isn't the only evidence that has presented itself to the world, aside from existence of hell, but you should research the Bible, and you will find that prophecies are being fulfilled one by one. I will be glad to tell which those are, as they are several now. This is not something I'm trying to shove down your spirit, but even in Jesus' time, regardless of how many miraculous things he did, many still didn't believe. Coincidence that this still happens today? I think not.

Mando

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[]
ib4gzus@aol.com http://www.angelfire.com/tx/Holyground

[This message has been edited by IB4GZUS (edited August 20, 1999).]

 

IB4 -
Which is it? First you present us with this dubious sound clip, proclaiming it to be valid proof that hell exists. Now you say your belief is based rather on your religious views.

This is a fundamental difference in the arguements between participants in debates such as these. For the religious types (in most cases), circumstantial evidence + faith = fact. For the scientific types, a fact does not exist unless it is backed up by testable, repeatable, observable evidence. Some people simply do not have the faith that you do, and so to them, your arguements are flawed and ineffectual. Similarly, their arguements ignore an important factor in your existance, and therefore become irrelevant to you. Something to keep in mind when presenting items for consideration.

FyreStar

 

So, IB, you need no proof that Hell exists because you already know it does. That reminds me of Saint Anselm: "I cannot see God, I cannot hear God, I cannot touch God. But I am imperfect, so there must be something perfect. That perfection is God." Or something like that.

We could try the dumbest a priori I've ever heard:

"I believe (fill in the blank) because it says to in the Bible."
-Why because the Bible?
"Because God says so"
-How do you know God says so?
"It's in the Bible."
-Why does the bible mean God?
"Because God says so."
-How do you know?
"It's in the Bible."

Go ahead and believe in Hell; the way I see it, Christians generally follow God's commands because they're afraid of Hell. Thus they go to church, give their money, quell their childrens' imaginations, and vote to ban rock and roll music. All because God doesn't like (fill in the blank).

I personally don't do as much outreach as I would like to; but on those days that I get off my butt and do something for the world it's because I think the world will be better off for said action, not because I'm afraid of a little book that I can get in the cheapest of motel rooms.

Face it, the schools are going to . . . well, I guess that phrase is out. Anyway, the schools are falling apart and we can't teach the kids what they need to know because their parents are afraid of Hell.

Or, to paraphrase the Salem-Keizer (Oregon) school board: Your children will not go to Hell because the school library has a copy of McCammon's "Demon Walk" or L'Engle's "A Wrinkle in Time."

Ever read the "Malleus Maleficarum"? It's a recipe book for torture; people tortured other people according to this book's methods because they were afraid of Hell. That same panic left two villages in the Bishopric of Trier, Germany, with only a single female inhabitant apiece, neither of childbearing capability. All because they were afraid of Hell.

Racists in the United States kill because they're afraid of Hell.

And that's all Hell is worth.

I might add here, as well, that Satan was only a social idea, much like our word, "Evil," in its vagary. Satan as the entity we know was fashioned only after the Christians encountered Zoroastrianism and Manichianism in Persia. The finishing touches came later, combining images and ideas from Greece to Ireland. The "Prince of Hell" role is almost entirely fictional (as compared to... let's call the Bible allegorical? historical? sociological or anthropological?)

Lastly, if your sound clip comes from Cyberia, then why are we arguing? I agree with Issola that it's pointless to argue about a soundclip from a bloody video game.

But the rest of the debate was kinda fun.

thx,
Tiassa

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"Let us not launch the boat until the ground is wet." (Khaavren of Castlerock)

[This message has been edited by tiassa (edited August 21, 1999).]

 

Hey, the link to the sound clip isn't working. Fix it!!!

 

I guess Hell is broken. I couldn't get the page to load...

"The page cannot be displayed"

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It's all very large.

 

Hey,
now we know where hell is, we could just nuke it man...problem fucking solved!

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Love yourself, as you would love a stranger

 

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Tabb, oh man, you got me rolling with that one! (wiping tears of mirth from my eyes) Thanks babe, I always love a good laugh.

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LOL, that's so funny. I've always
thought that there was something wrong
with the way Christians think about
things. I didn't know how to put it,
but she just said it right there.
When I read it, I was laughing

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My brother was going through some harsh
times a while back. He talked to a
lady who went to Church and told her
about it all and her response was
10 seconds of cluelessness followed by
a response one would expect to hear:
"It's the work of the Devil."

Christians are the nicest people in the
world. I know that for a fact. But,
if there is one thing I know for sure
about them it is that they narrow down
anything negative or bad down to 1
or 2 or 3 certain responses:
1) It's the work of the devil
2) The Devil's trying to control you
or
3) You're being possessed by the Devil.
I guess it all goes back to what I quoted
above. If something's got you down, its
because of the Devil. Why? Because it
says so in the bible. Why can't you
go against the bible? Because God said
so. Man, what a vicious cycle this is.

 

Oh, Wow, man ...

Xeno, you pay more than a compliment. Back then, I hadn't thought anybody noticed. In fact, I had forgotten about that entirely until the topic popped back up recently.

Your words do me a great kindness. Of the argumentative difficulty ... it's one of the fundamental things I haven't been able to figure about many religions.

thanx,
Tiassa

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We are unutterably alone, essentially, especially in the things most intimate and important to us. (Ranier Maria Rilke)