"Hello, is there anybody in there...?" A call to pagans, pantheists, and assorted...

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Tht1Gy!, Aug 13, 2007.

  1. Tht1Gy! Life, The universe, and e... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    780
    Come on, cut me some slack. Don't you ever get frustrated and make a hyperbole type response?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    And If you say "No", "I'll say "I ain't buying it".
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    Only if they are deliberately untruthful, I don't believe that.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    Oh heh.. I thought you were

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    I've thought about this and I've come to the same conclusion.
    But that would only go for elements involved in making up organisms.
    Plutonium, for instance, would then not "have life".

    Apparently, but I'm not sure they are talking about the same consciousness we are talking about. That's why I kept asking and asking them to clarify things.

    Fair enough lol

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    Hmm ok. I agree that currently accepted science isn't the whole story, but I do believe we're on the right track.

    I'm almost afraid to ask you this but I have two questions for you.
    Could you please answer them as best you can ? Thanks

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    • Could you please, for clarity, state your definition of life ?
    • Do you agree that what science currently considers life is a distinct group of objects that all share a unique set of characteristics (Homeostasis, Organization, Metabolism, Growth, Adaptation, Response to stimuli and Reproduction) ?

    Fair enough..

    Thanks

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  8. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,433
    You keep saying that as if it is a truism, but I don't think it is.
    I'd like you to explain:

    1.) What do you mean by "infinite universe"? Are you talking aboue size? time? both? Please explain.
    2.) Why must all things be possible in an infinite universe?
    3.) What makes you so sure the universe IS, in fact, infinite?

    Thanks.
     
  9. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,433
    No.
    I was referring to the fact that each of us, individually, has the power to influence something which is so powerful and all-pervading.
    I can’t imagine anyone who fully grasps the power which this force has, not having the utmost respect for it.

    I have a deep respect for many things, I do not necessarily refer to them as holy, divine or worthy of reverence.

    Perhaps.
    I can’t say.

    This is going to sound like we are going in circles, but because it is worthy of reverence.
    I will try and define it below, where you specifically asked for it.

     
  10. Tht1Gy! Life, The universe, and e... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    780
    Both.
    Part and parcel of being Infinite, I guess.
    I'm not. I'm not even sure you exist. You could be some elaborate computer program designed for some obscure purpose. That's not likely and I don't think it. I'm confident that you are someone plugging away at a computer somewhere, BUT I'm not sure of that, I don't know it.
    Also, I am under the impression that the concept of an infinite universe is part of the current scientific paradigm. Is the current model not Infinite? If not, what's outside of it?

    Surely you've heard the expression before? I don't know if it's considered a quote or not. I didn't coin it. I thought it was fairly well known. Oh well.
     
  11. Tht1Gy! Life, The universe, and e... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    780
    • OK, I think I got it: "Life=Imbued with the spark of the divine, the essence of god." Please tell me that that is a definition you at least understand.
    Do I agree with it, No*. Or do I agree that that is the definition? Sounds about right.

    *That would be a working definition of "alive" as we were talking about a couple pages back.
     
  12. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,433
    I have heard it.
    Just because it is a fairly widely used expression, that doesn't mean it is correct at all.
    I can think of many things that have been said over and over, but are patent bullshit.
    "Because people say it," is certainly not a reason to believe it is true.
    Using that logic, why aren't you a Christian?

    I don't think the statement is a self evident truth, and I am wondering why you believe it is true.
    Have you ever questioned it and come to your own conclusion why you believe it is the truth?
    If so, why do you believe it is true.
    If not, why would you use it in an argument to justify your point of view?

    I'm not attacking, just earnestly curious.
     
  13. Tht1Gy! Life, The universe, and e... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    780
    Fair enough.

    Well, I have thought about it, and I do think the universe is infinite. How can it not be? If it is limited then whatever is beyond that limit would be included in the word 'Universe'.
    And, I like the idea that idea that all things are possible. It doesn't mean that I think all things possible actually exist.
    But I know I'm not the one to be setting the parameters. Are you?
    There's too much weird shit going on; in the world, in the sciences for me to presume the right for that.
     
  14. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,433
    I see no reason, for example, to beleive that any true paradox in possible - regardless of whether or not the universe is infinite.

    Personally, I think the idea of an infinite uiverse is just as unfathomable as a limited universe.
     
  15. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,433
    I think it can be quite difficult to separate between what one believes and what one would like to believe.
    Some people never make the distinction - and that's fine if it works for them.
    It doesn't work for me.
     
  16. Tht1Gy! Life, The universe, and e... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    780
    Me too.

    More later. G' Nite
     
  17. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,433
    Then why did you say that you believe the universe infinite?

    I really can't understand you because you seem to contradict yourself often.

    Maybe you are just having difficulty putting what you believe into words, but it honestly comes off as if you have no idea what you believe and you do just make things up as you go, and claim the pantheist, wiccan and pagan titles just for the hell of it, because it makes you feel good for some reason.
     
  18. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    All is clear, thanks

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    Using your definitions of sacred and divine I would say that (to me) nature, excluding humans, is sacred but not divine.
    I can't think of something that is divine though.

    Well.. what are the criteria for something to be worthy of reverence ?
    Is something worthy of reverence when it is sacred or divine ?

    Karma manifest.

    Obviously, 'everything' is greater than any of us.
    But how do you determine if any one thing is greater than yourself or not ?
    Another humans being would be equal, but would an animal, a tree, or a forest be greater than yourself ? There no way to tell objectively.
    So imo Karma only works when comparing yourself against 'everything', which fits the butterfly-effect theory..
     
  19. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    Thanks, I understand

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    But.. what qualifies as such ?

    No that's not what I meant.
    What I meant is: Do you recognize that the described characteristics as a set are unique to things science calls life ?
     
  20. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    The universe is all there is. There is no outside because, by definition, it would be included in the universe.
    This doesn't require the universe to be infinitely large however.
     
  21. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,433
    I can see that.

    What makes a person worthy of love?
    That is obviously a personal judgement call.

    I'm not talking about "everything".

    I don't think I understand the question.
    Please elaborate.

    Another humans being would be equal, not necessarily but would an animal, a tree, or a forest be greater than yourself ?
    It's conceivable.

    No. There isn't. You say that like it is a bad thing.

    Then you do not understand karma.
    Perhaps you are referring to my idea of "karma manifest", but karma simply means action and implies the results of that action.
     
  22. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    Hmm well I was using your definitions of "sacred" and "divine" to try and determine what would be worthy of reverence.
    What do you consider divine i.e. that which is greater than one’s self, not vulgar and supremely good or beautiful ?

    The bold part made me laugh

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!


    No, I mean that objectively nothing is greater or lesser.

    But when you throw in the butterfly-effect surely it is "everything" that "provides" the results of an action.
    If you don't agree could you please provide a short explanation of Karma and Karma-manifest ? I though I got it, maybe I didn't word it right..
     
  23. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,433
    Isn't that obvious by now?
    Karma manifest (God)
    Gaia (Goddess)
    The dynamics in which the Trinity of the God, Goddess and Life interact and the synergistic effects of that interaction.

    While life may be sacred, I don't see it as divine.

    I understood.
    I agree and think that's part of the beauty of personal beliefs and philosophies.
    There is nothing objective about it.
    It is all personal value judgements.

    Karma, as I said, is nothing more than actions and the implied results or consequence of that action.
    Think of each action as a pebble dropped into a pool and the consequential ripple that is created by it.
    Each pebble creates a ripple.
    Each ripple affects the other ripples.
    Even a ripple's own echo can affect iself.
    The water is the Goddess.
    All the ripples combined and their relationships with one another is the God.
    We (self-determined life) are sitting in tiny boats on the surface of the water, dropping pebbles and being thrust about by the waves.
    Other life is swimming across the surface of the water, attempting to survive (and of course, every splach they make, has an effect on the whole system).

    Does that make sense?
    (this is not literal, of course)
     

Share This Page