Hey Israel, You Missed One!!

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Brian Foley, Jul 25, 2006.

  1. deicide128 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    147
    the whopping 1 mile range of the ciws wont do much good and when they do engage your going to have thousands of 20mm rounds raining back down on the people that would be as damaging or more then the rockets

    they move as soon as they launch you cant counter battery that. triangulate adjusting guns loading firing and the fact that shells arent dead on and can miss the target by a few hundred yards. maybe if we sold them some mlrs systems but since hezbollah fire from civilian areas its not exactly the most humane idea.

    you have to catch them as they are setting up w/ armed uavs or fighter jets


    maybe they should just fascam all possible launch sites but again they have to be humane.

    step 5 would be better off with the laser system i posted about earlier as artillery shells drift of target

    i think your mind is stuck on the theoretical side of combat.
     
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  3. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Not true. If they are firing at you and you fire to intercept near the peak of the rocket trajectory, then your bullets fall on them or if the bullets are still climbing, as would be the case, they fall deeper into Gaza. Both are on basically parabolic arcs but going in different directions - think before you post next time.


    Not a bad idea. Do it too, when weather permits, but even if you can use carefully targeted return fire, I still think that pounding the hell out of the launch site will, in the long run, result in fewer deaths on both sides. The random shelling Israel current does is like random beating of a dog you are trying to house break. - does not work. It only make the "beatee" angry and vicious.

    No, Recall that they chose when to fire and lasers, unlike radar /automatic gun system are no use at all thru clouds. - again you need to think before posting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2006
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  5. Buffalo Roam Registered Senior Member

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    But then you can set up a launch site with a automatic launch timer, and leave the area before the launch takes place, as for the CIWS depending on the angle of the incoming rockets, deicide128, has a good point, think of all the rounds that would end up in the Gaza, what goes up has to come down.
     
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  7. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Yes that is possible, but requires slightly more sophistication and is subject to being disarmed by neighbors who do not want their house pounded into rubble; however, my main objective is to try to change the direction this escalating conflict is going - nuclear Armageddon. Thus, even if they have used timers or the nearest 155 mobile artillery piece is 10 minutes away, I still think the launch site area should be pounded for at least five minutes, ASAP. I oppose the current policy of random shelling with no immediate prior launch. Same idea that pounding a dog will not house break it if the poundings are given at random instead ASAP after the carpet is wet.

    I agree with you, (except some may over fly Gaza entirely and fall in the Med.) but deicide128 stated that "thousands of 20mm rounds raining back down on the people that would be as damaging or more than the rockets..." - clearly, but falsely, objecting to my plan as it would be just as damaging as the rockets would have been.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2006
  8. deicide128 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
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    the ciws cant intercept the rocket when its at its peak in trajectory because it will be out of range at that point. It would have to wait until the rocket was deeper in israel hence putting their own people in danger from the rounds that will fall because the rocket would be 10 miles inside israels border.


    making launching areas a moon scape will just recieve out cry that israel is being mean old jerk faces.


    http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/10/29/laser.cannon.ap/index.html

    http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/systems/THEL.html

    i was referring to that for your step 5

    that can go through clouds and we should be careful automating such things as shells arent the only things that fly.
     
  9. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    That may be true of some specific CIWS, but I am speaking more generally, telling that Israel should develop and use a proximity fuse shell, and fire every 3 to 5 seconds (confirm kill, or fire again) by a fully automatic system.

    CIWS just means "Close In Weapon System." I.e. a class of weapons. I suggested that APL could develop this CIWS in 6 months.

    Yes, If you are saying that it must be part of an integrated radar control system, I agree and have already described it as such. I have already mentioned that this radar system could control civilian air traffic. In the next Israel/ Islamic war, Israel will probably need to shoot some small flying objects down. I suggest the main search radars be located on the mountains in the North Eastern part of Israel, but leave these details to Israel.

    In my small group at APL, we built an HCN laser (Required a room separated from rest of buildings and definitely not part of the air-condition/heating system - I was not directly involved and tried to avoid going into that room as I do not like working with cyanide.)

    We did not make a “gas dynamic laser,” the other serious candidate for your laser, but were keep well informed, secrete test results, etc., about the progress of it. Water drops scatter the hell out of both these IR lasers. In case you do not know, clouds are water drops. That is why the overall plan for laser defense against missiles placed the laser in an air-born platform (large plane).

    I am out of date by nearly 20 years, but think the whole idea has been dropped as impractical, in large part because of the cloud scattering. In any case, the modification that APL is making to the Aegis/ SM missile system is the line of defense that the US is putting it hopes on for anti-IBM defenses.

    On 22 June 2006, USS cruiser Shiloh (CG67), with APL staff on board if SOP was followed, conducted live fire test no.8 of this APL Kinteic Kill system. (There is no warhead*. - Incredibly the SM missile going up at a high Mach number runs into the ICBM coming down at orbital speeds, "HEAD ON" !!! and now has done so in 7 of the 8 test firings!!!)

    What I am suggest Israel do is at least five orders of magnitude easier. The old WWII proximity shells APL developed would work. They stopped the Kami Kazi attacks when they became available near the end of the war and those targets were "power diving" on the ships and guided by pilots maneuvering as best as they could to avoid the tracer bullets used to help aim, not crude slow unguided rockets simply falling from their peak altitudes.

    Surely Israel, with transistors, micro-computers, nano-technology, etc. now available can do as well as APL did more than 60 years ago. These proximity shells were so effective that none were fired in Europe (over land) until the last few days of WWII, as it was feared that if a dud was captured the Germans would understand how they can knock any plane in range out of the sky. Ordinary shells are either time of flight or impact triggered and neither system works well.
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    *Not needed at these relative speeds and the weight would slow the defense missile down too much.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2006

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