Hindu Deities & their meanings

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by S.A.M., Oct 2, 2006.

  1. everneo Re-searcher Registered Senior Member

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    He took the 'medicine' from the first line of your quote from Rig Veda. Skipped the 'best among the Gods' part as usual.

    "To Rudra [Siva], Lord of sacrifice, of hymns and balmy medicines, we pray for joy and health and strength. He shines in splendor like the sun, refulgent as bright gold is He, the good, the best among the Gods (Rig Veda 43.4--5)."

    Don't waste your time asking him for more silly explanations.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2007
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  3. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    there are numerous words for "the best among the gods" such as sura-uttama, sura sat tama etc that are not singularly exclusive (they even appear in the SB) - or even such words as adi-deva (as devas and suras have a material lineage)
    and furthermore, since the reference number for the Rg Veda is incorrect (a.b.c-d, not a.b-c) its impossible to verify the sanskrit, unless Ayodhya comes up with the right verse number or the sanskrit passage itself.

    I guess if you want to advocate that examinations of the context of sanskrit is silly you don't have much of a platform to appreciate the vedas. Actually it smacks of the contemporary lack of philosophical and theoretical basis in mainstream hindu practice which makes most people view it as an orthopraxy ("correct ritual") instead of an orthodoxy ("correct philosophy/idea")
     
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  5. everneo Re-searcher Registered Senior Member

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    Sanskrit sura refers to celestial beings lead by indra. Deva is a common word to indicate suras and gods. As in Vasu-deva (Krishna/Vishnu).

    Rig Veda Book 1, hymn 43, verses 4 and 5. (1.43.4 - 5)

    You talk about all 'big' things in a silly way.
     
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  7. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Vasudeva means the platform of unadulterated goodness, also the name of Krishna's 'parents'. Vaasudeva is the name of Krishna himself, the long 'a' indicating 'situated from', thus it means the perception of the transcendental nature of Krishna can only 'come from' the platform of Vasudeva



    so it appears the word in contention is 'sresthah' which simple means 'better' as opposed to a definite singular title - like for instance 'sura sresthah' means the chiefs among the demigods, or the guna avatars, namely, brahma (rajas- passion), siva(tamas - ignorance) and visnu (sattva - goodness)
    so 'srestho devanam' can be seen in many ways

    so, in conjunction with this SB verse, there is an indication what is the exact nature of siva's greatness

    SB 12.13.16: Just as the Gańgā is the greatest of all rivers, Lord Acyuta the supreme among deities and Lord Śambhu [Śiva] the greatest of Vaiṣṇavas, so Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the greatest of all Purāṇas.



    and other verses like this indicate who else can be designated as 'sresthah'

    SB 6.3.20-21: Lord Brahmā, Bhagavān Nārada, Lord Śiva, the four Kumāras, Lord Kapila [the son of Devahūti], Svāyambhuva Manu, Prahlāda Mahārāja, Janaka Mahārāja, Grandfather Bhīṣma, Bali Mahārāja, Śukadeva Gosvāmī and I myself know the real religious principle. My dear servants, this transcendental religious principle, which is known as bhāgavata-dharma, or surrender unto the Supreme Lord and love for Him, is uncontaminated by the material modes of nature. It is very confidential and difficult for ordinary human beings to understand, but if by chance one fortunately understands it, he is immediately liberated, and thus he returns home, back to Godhead.




    In short, the references provided are too vague to be taken as authoratative assertions of the absolute supremacy of shivaji (supreme, yes .... absolutely supreme, no)
     
  8. everneo Re-searcher Registered Senior Member

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    No contention, "ShresTho Devaanaam" is as simple as "Best of/among Gods". The references to suras, guna avatars etc are unwarranted.

    Duh.

    and my gf is the most beautiful in the world.

    LOL
     
  9. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Therefore it is better to rely on more distinct descriptions that are not so vague such as


    BG 10.8: I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts.


    or


    BG 5.29: A person in full consciousness of Me, knowing Me to be the ultimate beneficiary of all sacrifices and austerities, the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods, and the benefactor and well-wisher of all living entities, attains peace from the pangs of material miseries.


    or these from the padma purana

    "[Lord Śiva told the goddess Durgā:] 'My dear Devī, although the Vedas recommend worship of demigods, the worship of Lord Viṣṇu is topmost. However, above the worship of Lord Viṣṇu is the rendering of service to Vaiṣṇavas, who are related to Lord Viṣṇu.'

    "'A person who considers demigods like Brahmā and Śiva to be on an equal level with Nārāyaṇa is to be considered an offender, or pāṣaṇḍī.'"


    (BTW if these do not satisfy you I can provide you with dozens more)

    and once again, this is not all in the name of sectarian politics, but simply because different results ensue for different processes.



    Isopanisad 13: It is said that one result is obtained by worshiping the supreme cause of all causes and that another result is obtained by worshiping what is not supreme. All this is heard from the undisturbed authorities, who clearly explained it.


    the more detailed explanations of the distinctions being

    BG 7.23: Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.


    the qualties of the planets of the demigods in contrast to Krishna's being

    BG 8.16: From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But one who attains to My abode, O son of Kuntī, never takes birth again.

    In conclusion, the nature of worshipping the demigods is

    BG 5.22: An intelligent person does not take part in the sources of misery, which are due to contact with the material senses. O son of Kuntī, such pleasures have a beginning and an end, and so the wise man does not delight in them.

    in other words it is silly.

    (PS - notice how many of the quotes provided are direct comparisons to other things rather than assertions of "the best" etc)
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2007
  10. everneo Re-searcher Registered Senior Member

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    Vedic verses are vauge but vaishnavite scriptures are clear and ultimate to you. Not to all hindus.

    You shamelessly force your stupid conclusions in such debate. Shame on you, boy. It is a complete waste of time to debate with you.
     
  11. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Once again, it is not my conclusions - unlike you, I have backed up what I am saying with scriptural quotations (to do otherwise would be shameless) - as for the nature of most hindus, I referred to that earlier, how most of them are considered to be operating out of orthopraxy (rituals/superstition) rather than orthodoxy (philosophical conclusions) .

    the symptom of such orthopraxic practioners is that they are unable to offer scriptural references for their activities - there is still a lot of merit in orthopraxy, but such practices can easily be misdirected or deteriorate without orthodoxy.
     
  12. Rusty Rusty Registered Senior Member

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    well i think u guys have half baked cakes in ur head u guys know who r brahmins?ha im newly signed in but not new to this subject wish somebody wid full knowledge posts his comments here
     
  13. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    its not clear on what grounds we should accept your statements .... charisma?
     
  14. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Anyway, back to the topic - today is Bhismastami - the appearance day of Bhismadeva

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    Bhisma is famous for making Krishna break his promise on the battle field of Kurukshetra by taking up a chariot wheel as a weapon.

    he is also one of the twelve mahajanas (great personalities who establish the path of religious principles)

    SB 6.3.20-21: Lord Brahmā, Bhagavān Nārada, Lord Śiva, the four Kumāras, Lord Kapila [the son of Devahūti], Svāyambhuva Manu, Prahlāda Mahārāja, Janaka Mahārāja, Grandfather Bhīṣma, Bali Mahārāja, Śukadeva Gosvāmī and I myself know the real religious principle. My dear servants, this transcendental religious principle, which is known as bhāgavata-dharma, or surrender unto the Supreme Lord and love for Him, is uncontaminated by the material modes of nature. It is very confidential and difficult for ordinary human beings to understand, but if by chance one fortunately understands it, he is immediately liberated, and thus he returns home, back to Godhead.

    He had the benediction that he would only die when he willed - he is probably more famous for his departure than his appearance

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    SB 1.9.30: Thereupon that man who spoke on different subjects with thousands of meanings and who fought on thousands of battlefields and protected thousands of men, stopped speaking and, being completely freed from all bondage, withdrew his mind from everything else and fixed his wide-open eyes upon the original Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa, who stood before him, four-handed, dressed in yellow garments that glittered and shined.
     
  15. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Yesterday was Madhvacharya's disappearance day

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    http://www.goloka.com/docs/spiritual_leaders/madhva01.html
     
  16. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Today is Ramanujacharya's disappearance day

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    http://www.goloka.com/docs/spiritual_leaders/ramanuja.html
     
  17. Rusty Rusty Registered Senior Member

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    ok guys time to vex it up madhwa and ramanuja were from kali age so don take their personal teachings to ur head one proposes dwaita and the other adwaita and they r master manipulators of religion and met to their timely situations and morover we should stick to the original treta and dwapara teaching u know it is in the nature of blue blooded brahmins to manipulate teachings and in turn manipulating the society its high time we stick to the oldest vedic system of the society some vaishnavas tell us not visit shiva temples and viceversa assuming we know the fact that they are the operator and destroyers well i think if the vaishnavas think there is no need to respect shiva they dont want reincarnation and want to be operated infinitely it is all in the cycle boys there is no escaping for that unless sri maha vishnu and pareameshwara come and announce u the official breakup in their working which i doubt both of them (shaivas an vaishnavas) had witnessed so don get carried away stick to the genuine and the most scientific and oldest religion on earth follow the river boys not its tributaries.
     
  18. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    the question remains how one would determine what is the exact teachings of treta and dwarpara yuga unless one had received them through someone existing in kali yuga (unless you are laying claim to possessing direct experience, having lived in treta or dwarpara yuga)

    actually ramanuja proposed visishtadwaita or qualified non-dualism. ie, the living entities are believed to be qualitatively one with the Supreme and at the same time quantitatively different.
    and it was madhvacharya who proposed dvaita-dvaita-vada, or pure dualism, ie that there is an irrevocable difference between the living entity and god (namely in quantity) which establishes one as the constitutional eternal master and the other as the constitutional eternal servant - I can only assume that you are not familiar with their philosophical treatises since seeing any essential differences between the two is usually the business of ecclesiastical hair splitters
    and those teachings are?
    how do you propose to determine what actual religious principles are unless you utilize brahminical resources (either resources in terms of scripture or resources in terms of personal qualification, ie BG 18.42: Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, knowledge, wisdom and religiousness — these are the natural qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work.
    There are many shiva deities installed in or near vishnu/krishna temples - there are many places strongly associated with Lord Siva that are inextricably connected to vishnu (eg Bhubeneswar)

    There are many prayers vaisnavas offer to shiva

    vRndAvanavani-pate! jaya soma soma-maule
    sanaka-sanandana-sanAtana-nAradeDya
    gopIzvara! vraja-vilAsi-yugAGghri-padme
    prema prayaccha nirupAdhi namo namaste

    "O gatekeeper of Vrindavana! O Soma, all glories to you! O you whose forehead is decorated with the moon, and who is worshipable for the sages headed by Sanaka, Sanandana, Sanatana and Narada! O Gopisvara! Desiring that you bestow upon me prema for the lotus feet of Shri Shri Radha-Madhava who perform joyous pastimes in Vraja-dhama, I offer pranamas unto you time and again!"
    then obviously you have an incorrect understanding of vaishnavism

    SB 12.13.16: Just as the Gańgā is the greatest of all rivers, Lord Acyuta the supreme among deities and Lord Śambhu [Śiva] the greatest of Vaiṣṇavas, so Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the greatest of all Purāṇas.
    and you do want to take another material birth?

    even in the material world we yearn to speak words of eternality (all the time while our molars are rotting)

    perhaps you should explain how your views differ from standard atheism

    fine, but perhaps you could explain what is the most scientific and oldest religion (and also how you came to understand it by not taking the teachings of anyone who appeared in kali yuga)
     
  19. Rusty Rusty Registered Senior Member

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    i respect ur knowledge and ur painstaking research on this subject sir but have u also heard the debates that took place during the period of the great pontiffs they themselves quarelling and calling vishnu as a womanizer and shiva as a an aghori(literary sense)( aghori has a very different meaning) why so? if u watch the vaishnava families closely and their rituals closely u get to know wat im talking about some of them are i daresay all of them are restricted from visiting shiva temples now who gave them this right is it sri maha vishnu. u tell me there is not a slightest discrimination in them ill surrender to you as you yourself are specially speaking of shiva praises in vaishnava hymns and abt ur concept of reincarnation im regretting to tell u it is in the hand of all the thrimurtis if brahma dint create u you wount be here and if u want to sit idle and do no work without stimulation for operation u r committing a sin by being a load on the society and if u fail to fulfill ur duties properly and u want mukti and for that u need another chance another incarnation which i think u know is headed by shiva now who gave the permission to ur supreme kalis to discriminate between them have u heard of this phrase "athi vinayam dhoortha lakshanam"in sanskrit i think this speaks volumes and our kailpurushas were suffering from this and lo! the operator and destroyer are discriminated and moreover called names im not against ramanuja or any ajas or acharyas or any pontiffs but wat im telling is why not follow the scientific and pious teachings of bharadwaja,vyasa and of course the the bhagvad gita and the thing u r telling me abt shiva being the greatest vaishnava again i tell u i regeret that all the trimurthis have been equally been helpful and equally powerful it is just the infatuative bhakti which makes u see only vishnu is the supreme ruler but the reality is only devi gayathri is the supreme being of this universe of which ur thrimurtis are anshas when it comes to difficult situations the same vishnu u r talking abt and shiva and brahma combine their power to wake the shakti u tell me this is wrong then ill tell u you r a kali maniac and infatuated wid the teachings of madhvas,ramanujas,acharyas and wat not and the most scientific and oldest religion is aryan hinduism not vaishnavaism or shaivaism (both are hinduisms i agree i dont want you dining out lines that im not considering them as hinduism) but original aryan hinduism and the oldest texts include the four vedas the two epics and the upanishads not the commentaries wrote by acharyas and wat not.i request this is also harmful in some ways some socalled sexist bastardic artists who dont have control over theirs things in the pants are taking up the taunts on vishnu as subjects and painting him masturbating and wat not im not supposed tell his name here but ill give u an anagram please rearrange and find out for urself MIAAF QABOOL HASSDINU

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    bye
     
  20. Rusty Rusty Registered Senior Member

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    And also there is one thing i forgot the priestly class is a double edged sword they did not spread their superior technology in the hands of tyrants like there is a nakshatra a particular time when u steal u do not get caught it has a precise scientific reason which is my resarch i cannot expose it here but at they played wid the spiritual emotions of the common man and manipulated it which is despicable and please these r my views and views are extremly personal if i have hurt u im terribly sorry and i beg ur pardon
     
  21. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Basically you are confusing the distinction between a brahma-bandhu (relative of a brahmin) and an actual brahmin
    I would agree that the brahma-bandhus have done much to deteriorate vedic culture, but I would disagree that they are properly qualified as brahmins (since the vedas determine one is a brahmin by karma - action - and guna - quality - , not janma - birth - )
     
  22. nicholas1M7 Banned Banned

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    Okay samcdkey, I'll take the bait here. Which you probably was hoping for. Unfortunately, I wanted to show you your contradiction here. You stated that each image is an expression of the one god. First off, why is it that the one god would need an animal to carry it places if it were the real god, the god I grew up with is everywhere. Let alone, extend its powers, what is it, lacking now? I'm not arguing about his/her/its existence here. Just the claim that the Hindu god is "The God".
     
  23. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Why does god have to be isolated from every other living entity and be prohibited from accepting service from anyone? (Just because god may appear to have a particular object or be in the association of a particular living entity, it doesn't mean that he is dependent on them)
     

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