Hitler, The Spear of Destiny, and the Jews.

Discussion in 'History' started by The Gaour, Aug 17, 2005.

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  1. outlandish smoki'n....... Registered Senior Member

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    river ape:
    no, from an Islamic perspective he was muslim as were all the prophets that came before him, and as were all those came after him.
     
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  3. River Ape Valued Senior Member

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    Do Muslims not recognize Jesus as being of the blood of Israel (Jacob)? I am not an authority on this matter. I know only that the Jesus of Islamic tradition is unrecognizable from the Biblical figure.
     
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  5. outlandish smoki'n....... Registered Senior Member

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    unrecognisable to you and you're perspective which is irrelvant.

    Ah so now we have jesus having the blood of jacob and being the son of god LOL

    Muslims recognise all the prophets, since they are mentioned in the quran.
    As to the exact geneology and lineage of jesus, I don't posess enough knowledge on this matter to comment.
     
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  7. River Ape Valued Senior Member

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    Well, a Jesus who was NOT the Son of God and NOT crucified is radically different from the Biblical Jesus, isn't he?

    Why "so now"? Genealogies linking Jesus to Jacob (via Joseph) are so ancient that a couple of different ones are to be found in the Gospels -- despite the fact that they are somewhat irrelevant if he was the Son of God (rather than Joseph). It's rather an old problem for the comment "so now"!

    Does that make those prophets Muslim? Are you saying that their thoughts and utterances conformed with the teachings of Mohammed pbuh?

    So why do you take issue with my stating that I thought Muslims viewed him as being on Jewish lineage (of the line of Jacob)? I thought this was the case, but I am open to correction if wrong. I am not sure if Muslims view Mary/Mirium/Marium as having been a Jewess -- but if not it seems to make the Muslim and Biblical versions of Jesus even more unrecognisable as representations of the same figure.
     
  8. Darkclouds Registered Member

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    pardon me for interjecting but I do believe outlandish is simply pointing out that first you stated jesus was 100% born of god, with no contribution from Mary at all...then you go on to say he comes from the blood of Jacob...I can see later you add that you were speaking from the muslim view point...supposedly...but it sure doesnt look that way when reading your previous statment:

    "Do Muslims not recognize Jesus as being of the blood of Israel (Jacob)?
     
  9. dkb218 Banned Banned

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    That's just plain dumb.
     
  10. dkb218 Banned Banned

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    There were no "Christians" during his lifetime.
     
  11. Roman Banned Banned

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    If Jesus was the son of god, amd wasn't sexually concieved, then he couldn't biologically be Jewish. He'd biologically be deistic.

    Jesus was flesh and blood, and grew inside a human womb. There's nothing in the bible to make us think he was made from tin or iron or cotton candy that would deny him the blood of the Jews. Of course, the elves working inside our Holy Mother may have constructed Jesus from a Non-Jewish material.

    From a non-Christian stance, Jesus was definitely a Jew. His blood came from Jewish stock who you could trace all the way back to some semi-mythical king that the Jews think is important.

    So whatever.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2005
  12. River Ape Valued Senior Member

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    You should try to explain yourself better.
     
  13. River Ape Valued Senior Member

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    Precisely.
    Well, I would say that Catholic teaching DOES deny Jesus the blood of the Jews, and I would suppose that teaching to be based on the Bible. Whether you choose to believe the Bible is up to you, of course.

    Hitler's Catholic upbringing, which is where we started, would NOT have taught him that Jesus was Jewish. Had he pursued Catholic doctrine in detail, he would have learned that Mary was virgo intacta before, during, and after the birth of Jesus (and of any other children). Christianity requires a suspension of disbelief so far as biological normality is concerned.
     
  14. xylus chocolate Registered Senior Member

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    The Spear of Destiny....anyone ever play Tactics Ogre? There was a great GBA game and the whole plot of it was about the spear...
    Anyway, I don't think Jesus was Jewish. Maybe his mother was, but that would be irrelevant if he is supposed to be the son of God.
     
  15. Hagar Registered Senior Member

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    I'm not sure about Hitler, but I know that Heinrich Himmler and Alfred Rosenberg were anti-christians who saw Christianity as a mideastern import that retarded the progress of the "aryan" race and destroyed Rome. They wished to annihilate the religion. Hitler seemed pretty pragmatic in his views of religion, seeing them as mere tools to control people. He was also a fond admirer of Islam, believing that he could use it to his advantage.
     
  16. frostkrig Registered Member

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    Yeah, but what about the Wolfenstein sequel, Spear of Destiny? That game was sweet.
     
  17. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    I'd like to add that Hitler needed vast amounts of money to build his military and my thinking is that the Pope and the Catholic Church gave him what he needed.
     
  18. 2+2=5 Registered Member

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    Hagar
    "Hitler seemed pretty pragmatic in his views of religion, seeing them as mere tools to control people. He was also a fond admirer of Islam, believing that he could use it to his advantage. "

    Where did you get that from never heard of it before ?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  19. mythtronix Registered Member

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    Hitler struggled with Christianity, he saw himself as the German Messiah (a title given to him by Chamberlin and Ekhart). While Nietzsche was the grandpa of the Nazi "philosophy", Hitler idolized the old man's friend-turned-enemy Wagner.
    Nietzsche, the aethiest, publilcy chastised Wagner for his conversion to Christianity as a disgusting act of a weakened man. Wagner, a virulent anti-semite (believe that) had to reconcile his christian leanings with the jewish "problem". Wagner, along with a number of loonies back in pre war Germany, refashioned christ as an aryan victim of the jews. Don't ask me exactly how they made that leap, but expect that it had to do with Atlantean like beings, and subteranneans, and Antarctic Nazi UFO bases. Hitler followed Wagner's lead on the Aryan Space Jesus; but he like Mao saw religion as an opiate of the masses. I would highly recommend the book "Secrets of the Holy Lance" (piccard and smith(?)) for anyone interested in this shit. The writers fill in a lot of the blanks on why hitler was interested in the spear of destiny, the true lunacy of the nazis, it's twisted origin. people should learn about this shit so it doesn't happen again -- the story didn't start with Hitler hating the Jews. That hate had old roots, and it's rise to power was fostered by the old men in hats clubs -- and this is happening again. tune in people!

    over,
    rex
     
  20. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    LOL!!

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  21. the concept of the trinity was added to christianity 300 years or so after the death of Jesus. it became official christian doctrine at the first ecumenical council called the Council of Nicea in 325 ad. thats where the nicene creed came from and its recitation reaffirms a belief in the trinity. up until that point there was much argument between christian sects on the subject, and there has been argument about it since then, although most people putting forth an antitrinitarian view in the early years were executed. perhaps the most notable of these is Michael Servetus who wrote 2 seminal works dismantling the fraud that he believed the trinity to be (they are called On the Errors of the Trinity and Christianity Restored) he was subsequently burned at the stake after a sham trial by the naziesque genevan reformer John Calvin in 1553. Servetus is now considered the patron of the Unitarian Universalist christian church, of which a central tenet is a denial of the holy trinity as a concept essential to knowledge of christ.
    that being said, there is little actual evidence that jesus actually existed, let alone what religion he devoted himself to. everything has been postulated, from him being a magician, to a devotee of the ancient egyptian religion, to a jew, or various combinations of other old world religions.

    heres a couple of books i found useful on the subject:

    the templar revelation
    jesus the magician

    i dont really think that the spear of destiny had anything to do with hitlers downfall/demise. it was more likely a combination of inhuman arrogance and poorly reasoned tactics. hitler mounted expeditions all over the world looking for artifacts of powerful religious significance, from the holy grail to the spear of destiny, to the ark of the covenant. they turned out to be myths just like his 1000 year reich was.
     
  22. Idiotwind Registered Member

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    Morons! Know-it-all know-nothings, that's what you are, I must say.
     
  23. skaught The field its covered in blood Valued Senior Member

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