Holocaust ... and other forms of Denial

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Michael, Feb 19, 2017.

  1. wellwisher

    According to science, all humans stemmed from common ancestors in Africa. One of the reason the white people, who differentiated from the common source, have been so successful, is called winter. The white people lost much of their skin pigmentation due to less annual sun exposure, due to the colder north places they migrated too. They lived in climates where winters were harsh and plants died back, requiring extra adaptation skills. If you are from a warmer climate, where plants are always green, there is less need to adapt and change. You remain in tribal mode in balance with nature who provides for you all year long.

    After thousands of years of adaptation and breeding, natural selection caused changes in the whites, as the weakest died off due to the adverse conditions, leaving the strong, adaptive and resourceful. When they came to America, things were much easier, because the land was open, fertile and rich in resources. They sprouted wings and quickly develop a world class culture. If you were used to being busy all year long to make sure you are ready for the harsh winter, and you end up in a easier climate, busy all year long translates to fast progress.

    History is full of stories about slavery. The Jews had been slaves to the Egyptians. Slavery is always hard work, however, the exposure to the higher level culture had an impact on the Jews, that helped the Jews come into their own. Left to their own devices, the Jews would not have chosen to be exposed to that culture, or work as hard. But the combination of hard work and exposure, led to natural selective advantages.

    When the hurricane caused New Orleans to flood, the blacks waited to be rescued. The whites in surrounding states, also impacted, were digging themselves out. The difference has to due to breeding and winter. The former is used to nature providing all year long, while the latter had to learn to survive on their own during annual hard times. It is not about IQ, but the spirit of adaptation. This is why the white on the right stress self reliance instead of big government acting like big mother nature, so self reliance is not needed.

    The Asians are the same, with winter part of China, Japan and Korea; natural selection based on adaptation.
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Markets that exist will never meet your ever-shifting, incoherent, and childishly naive idea of "free". I want actual, real life market exchange - a setup that maximizes freedom for individual people (rather than capital, corporate organizations, or military forces).
    To have capitalist markets, you have to regulate. Otherwise, they blow up and break down and devolve into piracy and tyranny and other "suboptimal equilibria" (as the theorists term degradation and tragedy). I want actual, existing, long term capitalist market exchange, so I favor governance that establishes and defends such circumstances.

    That is what you call "Leftist Socialist", because you cannot afford to get your vocabulary straight - from "biological" and "inherited" to "population" and "racist", your entire world view depends on refusing to acknowledge what other people are talking about, so you can hide the real world from yourself.

    Denial - like yours of Jim Crow - does not survive careful language and honest analysis. You like the Chinese? As Confucius put it: The first thing is the rectification of names.

    And that's the second contribution of your posting here - illustrating the role of vocabulary in the practice of absurd denial. It's central. The Big Lie depends on destroying communication.
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  5. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Even the actual Jim Crow, rather than your hyperventilating misrepresentation there, was and has been at the level of a War Crime.

    Of course. That's why denying it is at the level of denying something like the Holocaust, and why that denial is here on this thread.
    Last edited: May 18, 2017 at 10:32 PM
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  7. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Oh, so legally favoring black Americans entry into private university, the police forces, and firefighting by lowering their entry requirements while simultaneously using the law to structurally discriminate against yellow Americans by raising the SAT scores needed and qualifications required to work as public servants - that's a War Crime?


    There's no good evidence that Jim Crow Laws had any negative or positive effect on the average IQ of black Americans. Just as there is no good evidence that discriminatory policies (such as race-based SAT score discrimination) against yellow Americans are lowering their IQ. There's good evidence that biological IQ is resilient to such laws. Certainly a generation or two following the end of these laws.

    I have a question:
    Do you think the requirement a Government license to practice medicine, which requires entry to medical school - and the tests and standards for entry are mostly based on IQ (which is mostly biological) and therefore discriminates against black Americans (due to their average biological IQ being lower than whites and yellows) should be eliminated?

    Are you in favor of free-market medicine?

    I'm sure all of this race-baiting and science denial will end up working out swell for everyone involved.
    Let's see

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    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 2:40 AM
  8. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Then you don't support Progressive Socialism.

    And snarkily littering your supposed desire with ad hominem and the preface 'real life' is not an argument. The historical fact is America had a perfectly fine mostly free-market at the end of the Civil War. Leading to the USA becoming the most prosperous nation in the history of the world. The Progressive fixed this though didn't they. They did what they always do: play the poor off the rich, present the world as a win-lose, blame blame blame. Ultimately amending the US Constitution (effectively ending America and giving us USA Inc) and giving us income tax (labor tax), a central bank, a quasi-private fascist fiat current, and the Great Depression.

    All down hill from there.

    You say you want the Government to maximize the 'freedom' for the individual????


    Here, let me translate how stupid this idea is: I want a group of people to initiate violence against morally innocent humans trapped in a geographical domain to maximize the freedom of the individual. How utterly oxymoronic and asinine.

    AND what has our Progressive Income Tax fueld Socialist Government given us? Let's see, following the Great Depression we got never ending wars: WWII, Korean War, phony-Vietnam War, phony-ME War, the War on Drugs, shit Givermint-Schools, unprecedented spying, trillions in debt to bail out the very top richest 0.1% whom supposedly Givermint is protecting us from (while bailing out) and so much regulatory capture the name of America's favourite past-time is: "Let's Play Rent Seeker" where high-IQ government schooled cogs get the Government licences needed to run everything. As an added bonus: Government hyper-regulated healthcare is shit and costs a ton, government run hyper-regulated schools are shit and costs a ton, and millions of low-IQ Americans are paid to have children they won't raise well, turning our one nice cities into literal third world shit-holes.

    Third-World Crap Holes: FACT

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    Oh, and I forgot: To get elected Alpha Monkey and carry the Big Stick of Immorality, you have to speak to the voting public like the fourth graders they are, and/or demagogue them with stories of The Bar Bar's Are Coming (to take your children! Barbarians at the Gates!) and all around treat them like the functionally illiterate imbeciles they are.

    Last but not least, now that Americans are up to their eyeballs in debt, the only recourse our one-trick pony Government has now is to import millions and millions and low-IQ adult tax-chattel hoping they pay for a bunch of Public Servants / Baby's pensions and cheer while society completely implodes.

    At this rate, I'm thinking maybe we can vote to impeach Trump The God-Emperor while at the same time voting for peaceful succession. HA! Wouldn't that be nice? That way, you can go your way and blame all of the problems on whites, yellows, jews, the rich, whatever - and, we can go our way rebuilding the pillars of society on 'conservative' shit like, oh, I don't know: Sound money, free-marekts/free-people, common law, peaceful parenting and family (and maybe even toss in a bit of superstition for those who feel they need it).


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    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 2:15 AM
  9. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Firstly, wrong.
    Secondly, the world was conquered, roads built, schools constructed, and etc.. all without 'Government Regulatory Agencies'. Want to know how? Easy: Common Law. In conjunction with private property rights and sound money.

    Government Regulation IS tyranny.

    It leads to regulatory capture and rent-seeking. Which is everything we see wrong with the hyper-regulated markets of today. These markets favor the well-connected with lucrative government contracts, government also is used to bail out the mismanaged cretins (see: most Banks) on the backs of generations of unborn taxpayers and government schools favor high-IQ people while destroying the lives of low-IQ people trapping them in low-wage shit jobs.

    Regardless, you're in luck, because we're going to get a lot more 'regulation' and this will make the poor much poorer while making the rich much richer. Someday, hopefully soon, our society will collapse, then the point will be mute because there won't be a government around that can afford to enforce regulatory capture

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    But, should history go in a different direction, well, the poor will eventually elect a dictator who will kill most of the rich. Then we can fully descend into a Venesualian Paradise, maybe even with the wonderful Healthcare of Cuba.


    Problem solved.
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Amnesia again. Remember what happened last time you chose that time slot for your mythical golden era? - some bad mannered guy posted a list of government handouts and capitalist misfortunes from that time, and laughed at you.
    That never happened. There was heavy government involvement - military conquest, etc - in all of that.
    I keep posting lists of mechanisms, you keep posting your contribution, the numbers (the closing IQ gap since the worst of the Jim Crow laws and environmental stuff was reduced, the Flynn Effect and the rest, etc) keep coming in, and you keep posting denial;

    and on top of it all, your claim continues to be irrelevant anyway. Jim Crow had and has enormous, war crime level effects on black people in the US no matter how intrinsically stupid black people are, and denying it is absurd.

    And that's your contribution to the thread - you illustrate the mental crippling associated with absurd denial.
  11. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Firstly, the government of that day didn't have the means to 'handout' much. The most the government could do was claim ownership by decree and attempt to pretend to then have the authority to administer land. Secondly, there's nothing wrong with capitalistic 'misfortunes'. Those are a necessary part of a free-market. Some things work, others don't. Thirdly, I'll happily go to that level of Government relative to now. We can start by repealing the 16th amendment, ending the income tax and letting federal reserve notes compete against other forms of money (and what the shitty USD instantly collapse without State violence proping it up).

    Not that it matters, we will never ever in a million lifetimes voluntarily return to the limited government of the late 1800s. Oh, we'll return to a limited form of government, just not voluntarily. Or so I would imagine. Probably transitioning through a dictator and holocaust along the way. Hell, if we'll really lucky, we could add in the bonus of Communist Socialism, Hugo Sanders style. Wouldn't that be great?

    How's this, post a single peer-reviewed study published on PubMed that demonstrates what the IQ of black Americans should be - the null. As it stands, it's 85. While you seem to be perfectly happy to claim 'white racism' / white people are lowering the IQ of black people (an act that is on par with genocide), the scientific evidence suggests that around 85 is in fact, a perfectly normal IQ.

    And? The Holocaust had an enormous effect on Jews - half a century ago. Two nuclear bombs and concentration camps had an enormous effect on the Japanese - half a century ago. What does that have to do with the average IQ of people living in 2020?

    Further, IQ is not synonymous with 'stupid'. Lacking the ability to perform advanced mathematics doesn't make one 'stupid' so stop trying to poison the well with more of your verbal race-baiting. Measuring brain function is a perfectly reasonable scientific question, whether you like it or not. And we now know, thanks to science, most IQ, most brain function, most temperament, and disposition, is genetic.

    Even your prediction for being on the so-called Left and Right - it's also genetic. As someone who falls in the 3% Libertarian camp, I find watching the whole political theater, Left -vs- Right, mildly entertaining, droll. Given science suggests this too is mainly genetic, it's not really that interesting. Like watching robots

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    Perhaps Libertarians are the only ones who are actually 'thinking' (given we don't fall into the two camps). A few conscious observers in an ocean of cognitive bias....

    Anyway, I wonder, how many innocent white people will be raped, murdered, beaten and robbed because of people like you telling pissed off black people (a great many of whom were raised in shit-families, without fathers at home; thanks to the Progressive welfare policies) that white people are poisoning their children so that neurodevelopment is impaired.

    I bet it was so much easier to murder a German Jew, if the murder was convinced the son-of-a-bitch deserves it. Especially if they really wanted to murder someone anyway.... or rape. Or just enjoy beating and hurting people. You know, because they were raised on Government "Welfare" in a shit Government Ghetto....

    That's sick you know? I hope you're getting a good hit of dopamine off your virtue signaling, because it's really sick IMO.
    Last edited: May 19, 2017 at 7:44 AM
  12. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    Neither is being a plumber, machinist, etc.
    Good Lord, you've completely forgotten! Your mythical Golden Age remains embedded in your silly little brain, and all the information you saw (which you reacted to at the time by moving your Golden Era window to a decade or so in the early 1900s) is gone like a bad dream you can't quite remember.
    Nobody knows. Nobody has ever "corrected" a population IQ score for any of the known environmental influences - even one. We do know that IQ scores in the US have increased nearly 20 points since 1948 - about twice the current black/white racial gap, which has closed from 15 to 10 points since the Civil Rights era began, one third of a standard deviation. Nobody knows why, in either case - although like violent crime it tracks lead exposure fairly well.
    Were you planning to have the white people keep it a secret? Seems unkind. Also, not really "innocent".

    And difficult, in places like Flint, Michigan - where enough black mothers and children were directly lead poisoned as an effect of white racism to move the black population average IQ of the entire State in a few years. Or are they not "innocent" the way white people you fear being beaten and raped are?

    I realize how scary black people are, but denying Jim Crow is not a recommended way of placating them.

    Look at it this way: maybe if the people obsessed with IQ tests learn to pay attention to things like lead poisoning and disturbed sleep, fewer black people will end up like Freddy Gray - who was lead poisoned as a child, and whose subsequent life and death exhibited several of the known consequences of such exposure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Freddie_Gray And that would mean fewer riots, and so forth, where innocent white people might get hurt.

    Which is all irrelevant, of course. Your denial of Jim Crow remains.
  13. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Race-based laws were and are a historical fact. There's no evidence that Jim Crow Laws from the last century are significantly affecting the IQ of black people in the USA. As a matter of fact, the Minnesota Adoption Study showed black children adopted by white parents had IQ measurements comparable to other white children - while children. This is strong evidence that these children, when raised in a nurturing household, could achieve an IQ statistically insignificantly different from other children. As adults, the adopted children had an average IQ of 85, the same IQ average as the overall black population in the USA. Again, strong evidence this is the biological average. Given genetics may determine up to 85% of a humans IQ, a reasonable conclusion would be that the null average for black Americans is an IQ of around 85.

    Your denial of the Scientific evidence is an example of Science Denial.
    You blaming white people for the biology of black people is Racism.

    I have some questions:
    1) Do you think the requirement a Government license to practice medicine in the USA or should we have a free-market in healthcare?
    2) If we were to measure the average IQ of white people living in Asia, and found their IQ was almost a full standard deviation lower on spatial reasoning, would you support the claim that yellow racism is affecting the IQ of white people living in Asia? OR, just maybe, that's the biological difference between the average IQs of yellow and white people?
    3. Because the IQ of white people living in Asia is lower than that of yellow people (on average) do you think it reasonable to expect white people to be in a lower socioeconomic class over time (on average)?
    4. In an Asian society where nearly every single job requires numerous governmental permission slips (licences, taxes, fees, etc...) do you suppose that whites having a lower IQ, would over time, result in their being unable to gain acceptance into the limited Government certification factories / licence factories (like medical schools, law schools, etc...) and the end result would be their living at a relative lower socioeconomic level?

    There's no need for your conspiratory Critical Race Theory, not when biochemistry and Government enforced rent-seeking easily explains the socioeconomic differences.
    Last edited: May 20, 2017 at 2:34 AM
  14. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    You think 'white people' run the city of Flint? LOL Maybe you need to google Mayor of Flint to see who our lovely public servant is. Oh, and Flint's about 40% white. That aside, what do you know of Flint iceaura? At least three of my nieces were potentially poisoned - one of them black, the rest are white.

    The Minnesota Adoption Study controlled for living in Flint by the way.

    Anyway, lead in the water of Flint is an example of what Government run Healthcare will look like after the morons who run public institutions get total control over healthcare. It's an example of government incompetence, classic socialism.

    Oh, and like Chiraq and Detroit, Flint is run by ALL Democrats. Here the turds are:

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    Let's see who the low-IQ functionally illiterate voting public barfed up: All-Dem Flint City Council Includes Convicted Murderer, Gun-Wielding Felon
    Last edited: May 20, 2017 at 2:32 AM
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  15. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    What happened in Flint was a consequence of white racism, which disproportionately and negatively affected the average IQ of black people in the area - among many other bad effects, such as trashing property values and blighting economic futures of black people for decades to come.
    Republican governmental incompetence - classic rightwing authoritarian fuckup. And classic white racist behavior, as well.
    It's been hundreds of years since substantial numbers of white people showed up in the yellow parts of Asia, and they are still not in a lower socioeconomic class on average. Meanwhile, the yellow people of Asia have failed to create First World societies on their own anywhere - low IQ white people have set them up on four continents.

    Your denial of Jim Crow remains.
    Yes, there is. They partly (other white racism played roles) created Flint's racial situation, for example. And I listed a few more items, as did you yourself.

    And if there weren't, Jim Crow would remain and your denial of it would remain anyway. So why are you bothering?
    That's not a reasonable conclusion. It's not supported by your evidence or argument. You appear to be making the same basic errors in genetics and statistical reasoning you started with here, as well as ignoring the biology of the situation.

    Illustration: heritability of IQ usually measures at the low end of its range in lower socioeconomic classes - so you should probably use 65% rather than 85% for heritability in most US blacks, even before making your mistaken projection - and you are working with old data for absolute scores: black IQ scores have been increasing faster than white, in the US, since the Civil Rights era, so you should probably use 90+ for the estimated average US black IQ before correction for known influences. That takes your "reasoning" in two different directions, which is the kind of problem such idiotic obsessions create for their victims - I can't help you there.

    And all this work to deny the undeniable: Jim Crow, my term for white racism and its effects on black people in the US. Why?
  16. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    You've completely gone bat-shit crazy.
  17. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Flint amd Detroit have a long history of political dominance by the Democratic party. Its current mayor is a Democrat; so was her predecessor; the mayor before him, Don Williamson, was a career criminal and a Democrat; his immediate predecessor, Democrat Rutherford was elected to finish out the term of Woodrow Stanley, who was recalled because of his incompetence. Incidentally, the Obama administration knew about Flint and elected to do nothing.

    But do carry on....something about the GOP.

  18. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    The evidence suggests the Flynn affect was simply measuring test taking experience and test prepping by government school administrators. The fact is, IQ scores have been falling for over a decade.
  19. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    1) Do you think the requirement of a Government license to practice medicine in the USA should be enforced by the State or that we should have a free-market in healthcare?

    2) If we were to measure the average IQ of white people living in Asia, and found their IQ was almost a full standard deviation lower on spatial reasoning, would you support the claim that yellow racism is affecting the IQ of white people living in Asia? OR, just maybe, that's the biological difference between the average IQs of yellow and white people?
  20. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Another example of institutional racism in the USA.
    The College Fix
    Whites Banned From “The Bridge” Cafe At American University


    Oh, and it seems from iceaura's earlier comments he supports private institutions using race to exclude people. You know, like requiring yellow Americans to score higher than whites and blacks on SAT exams for admission to higher education. Even though these so called private institutions get 100s of millions in tax payer funded grants.
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    And we see the denial is - as claimed - of simple physical reality and historical event.
    Now what are you banging on about? So? The entire remainder of that post was a compendium of Party affiliations, for no apparent reason whatsoever;

    and then you cap your blathering by omitting the Party affiliations of the State and local officials who actually brought about the lead poisoning of all those black children, which would have been the only ones of any possible interest or relevance here. WTF?
    Which would blow your inherited IQ score claims clear out of the water, if true - that's a 20% marginal education boost in a test you claimed was 85% fixed by genetic inheritance, accomplished by some minor efforts on the part of government educators you claim can't teach basic arithmetic or literacy.
    How can that be, if they are inherited? (It's OK, they aren't falling).

    Never mind. Back to the topic: we see that your denial of white racism and its effects on black people in the US is specifically and consistently a denial of physical fact and historical event. My categorization of the absurd denial is thereby supported: It's not a matter of simple ignorance, but of active rejection of information and analysis.
  22. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    You've completely lost the plot and biological IQ isn't "my" claim, it's the scientific concensus. You know, that whole empiricism and repeatability "science" thing. What next iceaura? Nature Genetics is a CT rag?

    It should be noted, the Chinese not only have one of the highest biological IQ averages in the world, they have entire institutions dedicated to finding the genes that underly genetic intelligence. And are doing so as we speak. In the 10 years from now, IQ will be superseded with genetic tests.

    Which brings me back to my question, to practice medicine right now, you require a government licence, which requires high IQ to get the SAT scores and then MCAT scores - both of which are essentially IQ tests. Do you support government regulated medicine? Because once genetic screening replaces pencil tests, it's going to be very obvious who Progressive Socialism has been harming the most.
  23. iceaura Valued Senior Member

    You just claimed that some hypothetical half-assed government school test prep boosted the average population IQ score of the entire US by 20 points, where earlier you had denied anything - even lead poisoning, stress, stereotype threat, poor diet, bad schooling, etc - could move even an individual's IQ score by 15 points.

    The reason you are getting tied up in knots like this is your overwhelming need to defend an absurd denial of physical and historical reality. You are trying to deny Jim Crow, and rendering yourself unable to reason in the process.

    And this is typical of the absurd denial.

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