Holocaust ... and other forms of Denial

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Michael, Feb 19, 2017.

  1. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    You have no evidence for your contention that comparative racial population average IQ scores explain the apparent existence and effects of white racism on black people in the US. None.
    None of that supports your contention that relative IQ explains the apparent existence and effects of white racism on black people in the US. None of it indicates that you have taken a class in basic genetics or simple statistics, and cleared up your confusion in these matters. You still appear to be arguing from familial heritability to population comparisons, for example, which is dumb and wrong (as the example of height illustrates, if IQ is too complicated for you to think about).
    I have made no claims about the effects of white racism on yellow people at all. The only relevance any of that spewing has on anything I posted is in #2 and #4, where you deny (without argument or relevant evidence) even the possibility of every single one of the obviously significant and visibly operating mechanisms by which white racism in the US affects black people's population average income and IQ.

    The topic was your denial of white racism and its visible effects on black people in the US. That is Holocaust-level denial. It is inexcusable, badly motivated, incompetently reasoned, willfully ignorance-based denial of an evil done by people like you, who justified themselves just as you do.
     
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  3. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    Really? White racism in highly segregated and decades-long Democrat-governed cities? Gee, I wonder who's perpetrating all that racism?

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    The duplicitous people giving with one hand are taking with the other.
    No, Democrat hegemony has led to lack of school choices and highly segregated inner city ethnic groups...ensuring their permanent under class. Planned Parenthood and welfare have simply taught blacks that their lives don't matter and they can't stand on their own and marriage gets less guv'mnt cheese, respectively.

    Yes, your apparent complete inability to countenance Democrat racism does appear in a denial thread...seemingly absolutely unawares.

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  5. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    A note about dirt poor E. Asians. Well, anyone who knows E. Asian history knows that for the last 200 years, Japan was in a period referred to as the Edo Golden Age (ended in the mid 1800s). Europeans were shocked to find a nation more civilized then their own (this was a time when the dead were tossed in alleys and left to the dogs in London, meanwhile the Japanese were so tidy as to water the roads to keep the dust out of the shops in the morning). And as for China, as a Nation, for most of history they've been the most prosperous nation period. A title they lost following their experimentation with paper fiat currency (this took centuries to play out - just like here

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    No IQ level can know how valuable my coffee cup is to me. Only I can know that. With sound money I can approximate my value to someone else. So, China destroyed their currency and over time collapsed. This collapse was followed by Marxism/Progressive Socialism where the loss of a price mechanism ended up starving around 30 million humans to death. Think of a US Government Schooled, Welfare Ghetto, only across an entire nation.
     
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  7. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    DO you have controlled data showing this to be the case? Are you sure it's not Black Racism? Feel free to provide something other than assertion - anytime. Do you have data to back up YOUR assertion.

    See, the way Science works is, the position there is NO EFFECT of White Racism is called THE NULL HYPOTHESIS. If you have data to reject the null, present it. If not, then it stands as the current prevailing argument.
     
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  8. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    There's no good evidence to suggest White Racism has a significant effect on the socioeconomic outcomes of Black Americans.

    If there were, you'd present it. There isn't, so you don't. But make no mistake, there are BILLIONS of dollars (10 trillion spent on Welfare since 1970) hat depends on there being a White Patriarchy. If the effect was present, it would have been measured in controlled studies and touted throughout the media.

    You may want to stop and think about why there's no data. That perhaps, it's because there's no phenomena.

    Black millionaire basketball players, as an example. Or high IQ Black neurosurgeons, as another example. Or highly paid high IQ Black actors, as yet another example. See, there IS NO White Patriarchy - it doesn't exist (evidenced by the higher number of women in higher education - as an example). There's no such thing as White Privilege - it doesn't exist (evidenced by the fact Whites are the largest number of those living poverty).

    What does explain socioeconomic outcome is IQ, which the data suggests is mostly genetic and predicts more than just general intelligence but also self-motivation and other behaviors. And explains why Yellow People make 20K more a year than White People (many of whom would be happy to make 20K a year period). This also explains national prosperity. Which is why nuclear bombed and occupied Japan is now one of the few first world nations in existence. This also explains ghettos in Sweden, and England.

    So, unless you have some good evidence in a data set - we're going to have to accept the null: NO EFFECT. See, that's how Science works.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  9. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    At some point Socialists are going to have to recognize it was their Racist policies (for example: the minimum wage, licencing scams, and regulations) that disenfranchised Black Americans - to the great benefit of the Democratic Party due to large communities of Black Americans that are utterly dependent on White Tax payers; what Mayor Ray Nagin termed: Chocolate Cities.
     
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    And everywhere else in the US, especially in the Confederacy.
    Get a dictionary, use it. Then try to find a quote from me anywhere on this forum where I countenance Democratic racism, or even exclude Democrats from my ascriptions of racism. Do I in this thread claim that the white people whose racism against black people I claim is causal were and are all Republicans, for example? Quote that if you can find it.
    Of course: your posting here, in which the amount of evidence supporting that contention is 0 by any measure. Unless you are withholding the evidence you possess, you have none.
    Like I said: denial.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  11. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Denying the disenfranchisement of black people prior to and independent of the New Deal. Like I said - Holocaust-denial level delusion is involved here.

    And slavery, Jim Crow, racial voter suppression,
    along with redlining, lynching, and segregation throughout the no-minimum-wage non-socialist Confederate States,

    never happened.

    And we'll just quietly forget about all that IQ stuff, until the "socialism" explanation is once again revealed to be based on historical fantasies and and inability to think coherently - at which time IQ will be fresh and new and not at all ridiculous.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  12. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    LOL

    Democrats passed the minimum wage purposely to disenfranchise Blacks, it was quite common back then. For example, via Forbes: On The Historically Racist Motivations Behind Minimum Wage.

    “In 1925, a minimum-wage law was passed in the Canadian province of British Columbia, with the intent and effect of pricing Japanese immigrants out of jobs in the lumbering industry.

    A Harvard professor of that era referred approvingly to Australia’s minimum wage law as a means to “protect the white Australian’s standard of living from the invidious competition of the colored races, particularly of the Chinese” who were willing to work for less.

    In South Africa during the era of apartheid, white labor unions urged that a minimum-wage law be applied to all races, to keep black workers from taking jobs away from white unionized workers by working for less than the union pay scale.”


    --oOo--

    Sure, Asians were unable to vote prior to 1952. That's then. Not now. Now Yellows can vote, and they make 20K more a year than Whites (because of their higher than average IQ).

    Do you have good evidence of the White Patriarchy holding up Yellows socioeconomic status?
    No.
    Do you have good evidence of the White Patriarchy holding up the IQ score of Yellows?
    No.

    Likewise, you have no evidence of a White Patriarchy even existing, let alone one that somehow magically holds down the IQ of some people (most of whom are other Whites!). Why? Because it doesn't exist. There is no White Patriarchy. What there is, is a big fat bureaucracy enacting Progressive Social policy in the way it knows how: TESTING. The socioeconomic problems of today, are a direct result of the Progressive Welfare State screwing over lower IQ people who are, through no fault of their own, unable to pass assessment tasks in the manner that higher IQ people can.

    Do you think that is fair? Because we have 12 years of Government Assessment funneling lower IQ people directly into Government Welfare Ghettos. Nicely out of the site of the higher IQ middle class particularly those crapping on about them in their tax payer funded University aircon office.

    Instead of making up a Boogeyman / White Patriarchy, why don't you do the right thing and blame yourself? Because you can keep making up words like 'Social Justice' and 'White Privilege' all damn day long. It's not going to change the actual cause of the problem, unequal distribution of IQ. It's not going to change genetics. GMO requires a bit more than platitudes. And while we will get there one day, for now, the best solution is to structure society in a moral manner with free people, sound money and common law. I also maintain, that peaceful logical parenting is essential for a sound society. Prosperity is only a part of the equation. People need to be independent strong individuals in order for society to maintain itself over the long run. Pretty much everything the OPPOSITE of what Progressive Socialists want for society, is what we need to have happen. While I do not think it's going to happen, I wouldn't rule out a social collapse in the USA, akin to that of the USSR, followed by a break-up. Though, is Gen Z really is as conservative as they are predicted to be, maybe not.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Which makes your denial of it all the more ridiculous. As does ascribing this to "Democrats" and then illustrating it with Canadian and Australian examples.
    I have never posted the term "White Patriarchy" on this forum, until right there quoting you.
    Nothing you post about yellow people is relevant to your denial of white racism toward black people in the US.
    Your timeline is wrong. The northern and western black ghettos in the US were formed by people fleeing Jim Crow laws, and meeting redlining and other housing segregation based on race - not test scores, not IQ, race. The southern ones were formed by Jim Crow laws in the Confederacy. They predate the bureaucracy you are talking about, and the testing regime you claim is the cause of them.

    You are in denial, and what you are denying is the 250 year history and and consequences of plantation racial slavery and its supporting racism in the US. That is not much less of a travesty than Holocaust denial.
     
  14. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    [PDF here]
    Retrospective: Eugenics and Economics in the Progressive Era.
    By Thomas C. Leonard (Princeton University)

    Progressives embraced eugenics as a means of “weeding out” ethnic groups that Progressives considered to be vastly inferior to educated whites. Blacks were among those groups that Progressive Socialists believed needed to be subjugated to white rule and used economic “reforms” to do so - such as the implementation of the minimum wage.

    Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood and an icon of Progressivism stated of the need to “exterminate the Negro population” through a program of birth control and sterilization. Economists such as Irving Fisher, Frank Fetter, Simon Patten, and Edward A. Ross saw the presence of blacks and immigrants from Eastern Europe as destructive to American society and believed that the implementation not only of eugenics, but also imposing a minimum wage would help “purify” the country by keeping the “unemployables” out of the workplace through the use of regulation.​

    Maybe you don't get it, YOU are the one pushing racism. In fact, RACE is a subjective construct. Of course, we can NEVER move past this subjective construct so long as racists continue to paddle on about it.

    It was and is the State that enslaved Blacks and then later Progressive policies robbed them of their chance at gainful employment. Which the State continues to do to this day - to all low IQ people. Not just Blacks. The State has long moved on from targeting Blacks. It now targets ALL low IQ people. High IQ Blacks will find all sorts of scholarly opportunity available to them. Not low IQ people.

    You remind me of a third wave feminist. Fighting a battle won long long LONG ago and now completely unable to see reality for it is, now. Not 1917, but 2017.


    You have THE Narrative, and that's it. You don't have any data. The reason you don't have any data is not for lack of want - it's because White Racism is not the reason why some Blacks are of a lower socioeconomic status or why Yellows are in a higher one.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
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  15. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    Yet the most racially segregated areas are decades-long Democrat-governed cities. These are facts. Where are yours?

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    LOL! Even in this post, your "especially in the Confederacy" (which votes overwhelmingly Republican) seems to imply that racism is by far a Republican problem. If you'd really like to dispel that perception, why haven't I seen you specifically called out Democrat racism?

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    If you have, please show us. Who said you mentioned anything about Republicans? I was making the point that the professedly least racist seem to be doing the most harm.
    But since you didn't refute, and even seem to admit, Democrat racism, I'm not sure what you're arguing here. We seem to largely agree.
     
  16. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    What 'consequences' are you referring to? I didn't say there are no causal relationships. A human left Africa a million years ago, we are the 'consequence' of that human's choice. AND? Yes, Black Americans LIVE in the USA as a consequence of Slavery. If there weren't ever Slavery, then there wouldn't be many Black Americans living in the USA today. Black Africans enslaved and sold other Black Africans to Europeans and Arabs as part of the Slave trade (and had been doing so in one form or another for thousands of years - at least). Those actions, had consequences.

    America nuked Japan, not once - two times. Completely obliterated two cities off the map. Those cities are quite beautiful today, but, they are missing all of the ancient temples, as a 'consequence' of the bombing, which was a 'consequence' of their bombing Pearl Harbor, which was a 'consequence' of our cutting off their oil supply, which was a 'consequence' of their invading China, which was a 'consequence' of European and American Imperialism in the East, which was a 'consequence' of the Age of Exploration, which was a consequence of blah blah blah blah.

    Blood feud much?
    Which side are you on iceaura? The Hatfields or the Mccoys?

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    The USA was founded on 1776 and the Civil War ended on 1865. The USA practiced Slavery LESS than a single person's lifetime. At the height of Slavery, 6 out of 7 people never owned a Slave. So, let's apply YOUR race theory to history: It was White Christians that risked their lives protecting Blacks and argued against Slavery. It was White Christians who fought and died by the tens of thousands to fully bring an end to Slavery. Not Arabs. Not Asians. Not Muslims. Not Africans - which still practice Slavery to this day. Not Buddhists. Not Indians Hindus. None of those people ended Slavery.

    Once given a free nation, White People did in less than 90 years, what very few other societies had done EVER (exceptions made of Japan, though feudalism was just as bad) ..... in 10,000 years!

    It should also be noted, most tax payers in the USA are White Peoples (White Males to be exact) - according to the DATA. And we live in a Republic. One inwhich those White People have paid out 10 trillion dollars since 1970 helping all people of lower socioeconomic status - including generations of Black People. Oh, and those White People also elected a Black POTUS - twice. Two times. Not one time. Twice.

    Seems to me THE Narrative is a complete bullsheet fantasy - one without any data for support and is fully based on faulty premises. Why does it exist? It exists because Marxism has infected our Universities. A basic premise of Marxism is the notion of the "Blank Slate". Another failed idea from a dead-beat-dad and dole-bludger / Karl the snarl, Marx.

    Poor People are poor, not: "Because White", but State and because "Science Denial". One part is specifically due to the fact that one's inherited genes, for the most part, determine one's IQ. And IQ, in a HYPER regulated society (where assessment determines one's place in society) determines one socioeconomic status. And IQ is a blunt instrument. BLUNT. All forms of assessment are. But never you mind that, the Progressive Socialists want to ensure everything is 'fair' and 'equal' and so we have to have assessment-assessment-assessment.

    Low IQ people, do not live in a free-market and are NEVER going to do as well as high IQ people on assessments and so they left to fend for themselves in a Virtue Signalers Welfare Ghetto. I mean, Oh GAWD we couldn't let the Peon's freely interact with one another (AKA: Free Society), I mean Jabezus, they're too stooopid to do that. No no no, we Progressive's will take care of everything - via the licencing scams, fiat currency, income redistribution and regulatory capture (AKA: The Nanny / Psycho State).
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
  17. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    So?
    All I did was state an obvious fact you guys seem bent on denying; the implications, however unavoidable, are of your posting - not mine.
    So? The issue here is your denial of the consequences of 250 years of white racism against black people.
    It's not relevant to this thread. So far, we're trying to get a couple of dinglefritz's to quit denying the existence and profound influence of white racism against black people in the US for the past 250 years. We can quibble about which white people did exactly what in another thread.
    Congratulations.
    But that's not the topic. The topic is your denial of the influence of white racism against black people in the US.
    Obviously a black person's IQ was not the primary determiner of their socioeconomic status in the US until - at a minimum - one full economic generation after Jim Crow laws were expunged and financial oppressions like redlining ended. Agreed?

    Like this guy: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.sport.boxing/rCA5G5mEulc who put a half dozen children through college on the earnings from this: http://www.claudiastack.com/gallery/tiger-jacks/index.html
    Back in the 1950s Mr Rosenbloom attempted to organize the businesses due to be bulldozed along the proposed route of I94 through Saint Paul, Mn, and negotiate as a bloc to get favorable eminent domain terms and bank financing to back their relocation and development of the new best locations. He failed, and was left to adjust on his own, largely because he and many of they were black, and banks in those days did not often finance business ventures at that scale undertaken by black people. And so the high socioeconomic status gained by the newcomers who did get financing for such development as they thought appropriate (much of which failed) was not gained by Tiger Jack and his on site already successful business allies.

    So some time in the late 1900s - long after WWII, long after Vietnam - would be the earliest that IQ could have taken over from the other influences as the major factor. Then you have to sieve out the influence of all those other population-afflicting factors that influenced IQ in the US (I listed a half dozen, above, none of which you have ever addressed) in order to get an idea of the population average genetic "absolute" IQ - you currently don't know what it is, especially for black people due to the effects of racism, in the US. Then, you can begin to compare population average IQs between different US populations with some hope of not making a fool of yourself in public.
     
  18. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    Good on you for admitting it.
    As usual, completely unsubstantiated. Just some boogeyman rumors to keep Democrat minority voters in line.
    Show me where I've denied white racism or its contemporary consequences. You seem to be making a false causal comparison between past racism and modern consequences.
    What modern influence do you claim past white racism still has on modern blacks? If you can't be specific, we can only assume you're accusations are too vague to amount to anything.
     
  19. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    LOL

    That's not how "Science" works. You claim the existance of Lizard people, YOU provide the controlled data as evidence.
    YOU claim 'white racism' is having a significant effect on 'black people' (or Yellow people for that matter), then YOU provide the controlled data as evidence.

    The NULL hypothesis, that there is no effect, is not 'denial'.
    LOL
    No one is 'denying' Drug A lowers blood pressure or increases wound healing or dampens pain, that's not how it works. Until controlled evidence is provided that Drug A has an effect, we assume there is no effect. THE NULL - look it up in one of your fancy pansy 'Idiots Guide to Statistics for Sociologists and Arm Chair Psychologist" books

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    It should be noted, White People murdered Yellow People, restricted their entry in the USA, legally stole their land and property, nuked a couple of their cities and when not invading and occupying their counties where quite racist against them - generations ago. Yellow People have a higher IQ and Yellow People make more money than White People.
     
  20. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Essentially iceaura's argument is "magic" White Racism is the cause of everything and anything. Let's see.... so, White People nuked Japan, and Japan is now rich, it must be White Racism (and yes, by all accounts, there was a tinge of racism involved in wanting to nuke Yellow People in 1945). Of course, if Japan was now dirt poor, iceaura would blame White Racism - yet, I don't see White Racism (and it's consequences) to blame for their prosperity. That's funny. Seems to be a magical blade that cuts one way.

    In the real world, a small number of Americans owned Slaves and in the USA Slavery lasted less than a single lifetime, less than 90 years. In the real world White Christians fought and died to end Slavery. And ended it. Sure, go back 150 years, and if you washed ashore on the Japanese archipelago, you'd have had your head chopped off. Go back in time 90 years ago, and you were Jewish in Germany, you're dead. That world no longer exists.

    Oh, and while I claimed 10 trillion has been paid in Welfare, the data suggests it's actually 15 - 20 trillion. Our entire national debt. AND what exactly have the Progressive Socialists bought with generations of prosperity? Nothing. Poverty is exactly the same as it was in 1964.
     
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  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    My observation is that you are denying the influence of white racism on black people in the US over the past 250 years and continuing.
    That is Holocaust-level denial.
    "Causal comparison"? WTF is that?
    You are denying the modern consequences and influences of past as well as present white racism against black people in the US. That is Holocaust-level denial.
    Impoverishment, disease, poisoning, suppressed education, geographical and socioeconomic isolation, sociological injury, - - - how long a list do you need?
     
  22. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    Poverty was actually on the decline prior to the New Deal, and even with continued welfare spending, it simply returned to pre-New Deal levels.

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  23. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    Simples. False comparison, conflating causes and effects of two disparate time periods. A rather extreme case of causal oversimplification.
    "Holocaust denial" must be your latest incantation to ward of the boogeyman.

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    Democrat-governed, Democrat-governed, Democrat-governed, Democrat-governed...
    I guess you think that adheres to all whites, regardless of disagreement with the policies that perpetrate such things. Claiming all members of a race are guilty (morally inferior) solely by dent of their race, and regardless of individual actions, is racism. See, you fit right in with those Democrats.

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