Holocaust ... and other forms of Denial

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Michael, Feb 19, 2017.

  1. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    LOL
    Generalize much?

    One more time, because this is very simple, no one is denying a White People may have 'influenced' a Black People today. Perhaps a White People looked at a Black People today and though to themselves: "She's pretty cute". Now, perhaps that cute "Black People" smiled and bought a latte instead of her usual flat-white. You know, just because she felt like trying something different.

    That's influence iceaura.

    As for causing an entire group of humans across the nation to have an IQ score change that correlates STRONGLY with both prosperity, and likelihood of committing acts of violence, you've yet to provide ANYTHING other than "I said so". Talk about White Man's Burden, it's like a page out of a 1920's Progressive Socialist's book.

    Perhaps you think magical White Lizard people are magical? I on the other hand like to go with the data, and the data suggests individuals have a bit more agency than you're given them credit for. AND based on their DNA, they decide which actions they do and do not commit.

    Note: There's more low-IQ White Peoples in the USA iceaura.
     
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  3. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    And a list of environmental factors unevenly distributed by race and known to affect IQ scores, none of which have been controlled for in your population IQ averages.

    A couple of which are also known to increase the likelihood of committing violence, as well (especially lead exposure in childhood and in utero, which has one of the strongest global and cross-cultural correlations with violence of any factor known).

    And you have been provided with links, argument, etc - all that stuff - multiple times now, over many months. If you remain ignorant, it can only be willful somehow.

    Denial.

    You keep extrapolating from heritability to population comparisons, no matter how often corrected. Why?

    Denial.

    I posted some counter-evidence - including your map of geographical IQ levels - for 85 IQ being a danger zone for violence. I also linked you to an explanatory mechanism or two for the correlation between IQ and violence - they are both strongly affected by toxin exposures in childhood and utero, especially lead, for one. You learned nothing.

    Denial

    Denial of what? Of white racism and its effects on black people in the US.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
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  5. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    Sadly, you don't even seem to know what "fact" means.

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    No wonder you think bare assertions are valid arguments.
    I asked you what metric you define "fortune" by. It's your argument...make it already.

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    But I assume you're only trolling, so you will arduously avoid defining your own argument.
    Bare assertion.

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    More unsupported, partisan crap.

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    If blacks do not feel they have it worse than whites, that directly speaks to your premise that white racism currently harms blacks.
    "Anti-Semite bigotry"? Non-sequitur ad hominem much?
    Sounds like she's right. You protest far too much at a black person denying that YOU are privileged, likely because you do think you are superior. No surprise coming from a partisan on the side of historical racism.
     
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  7. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Nobody disagrees that environment can lower IQ. Sure, beating children (corporal punishment), purposefully feeding them lead paint, restricting their access to language, these things could lower IQ.

    One would expect that the Jews who were raised in concentration camps, for example, would have lower IQs. As far as I am aware, they didn't have lower than average IQs. But, perhaps they had lower than their potential, IQs. This is an bonafided example of White Racism (in a sense, more like Religious discrimination given the German Jews were White People). Of course, the generation following their near extinction-level attack, Jewish White People have one the highest average IQs (mainly due to verbal reasoning, their spatial reasoning is 100).

    You suggesting the "Whites Racism" is to blame for Black People having lower IQs (or Yellow People having higher IQs on a sub-test of spatial orientation) means YOU provide the evidence. Do you have any evidence that White People (or Lizard People) are lowering the IQ of Black People?

    Nope.

    Because you've provided nothing, then there is nothing to 'deny'.


    Seems to me, that the actual conclusion here is that you are a Virtue Signalling racist. You're claiming that a 'Race' (a subjective category) here, "White People" are 'effecting' (perhaps poisoning) Black People and lowering their average IQ. Feel free to believe that to be the case. But there's no good evidence that this is the case. There is good evidence that different groups of people have different DNA and, as a consequence, different inherent IQ levels. This is why E. Asians living in Britain score 110 on the spatial reasoning subsection of an IQ test whereas Irish White and English White score 100. Whereas all three categories score 100 on verbal reasoning. It's also why Jewish White Germans who were literally starved to death in concentration camps, which unlike your asinine claims actually did exist, score 110+ on verbal reasoning, but 100 on spatial reasoning.

    It should be noted, Chocolate Cities (as Ray Nagin, Mayor of New Orleans calls predominately Black cities) are mostly run by a mix of White and Black GiverMint Servants, it must be one hell of a conspiracy for White People to magically just poison/effect Black People. Doesn't matter if we're talking the Chiraq boroughs, in Flint or Detroit. All of these cities are run by mix of Black and White GiverMint "Servants". So, to claim Blacks are being 'effected' by magical "White Racism", would be borderline crank-conspiracy theory babble. Particularly given the total lack of any good evidence.

    As a scientist one would want to look for a more generalized cause: SO? Let's see, Chocolate crime ridden Cities, where the average IQ is 85, that are run by Black and White DEMOCRATS. Oh, yes, that's right. The people who are in charge, are always Democrats.

    Hmmmm..... And what do Democrats like to do? Oh yes, they like to lie through their face holes

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    For example, blaming "White People" (or Lizard People) without a shred of evidence. Oh ho ho ho, but THAT was your evidence wasn't it? Lack of evidence for Lizard People IS the evidence FOR Lizard People. LOL

    ....AND until we can run an experiment where randomized IVF embryos are placed in wombs under double-blind conditions and then raised in a Progressive Socialist experimental city run by Demondcrips, well then, we'll never ever know the answer. Ever. Other than "because White".

    LOL


    You are a Science Denier.


    Which is okay, most people are - and that includes scientists. It's just the way the human brain works. But sorry to splash water on you, but get this: In time (and not much time given the pace of discovery) science will clearly show a causal link between specific gene/s expression in populations and their respective IQs. A simple genetic test together with MRI scan will give anyone a good idea of their inherent IQ. At this point, we'll have to reexamine how Progressive Socialist policies like licencing scams, minimum wage, regulatory-capture and rent-seeking all act to harm the prosperity of low IQ people (which are mostly White People by the way, whom also make up the largest group of people living in poverty) whom will be objectively tested and shown to the door. Until then, keep peddling your ZERO evidence backed claims of White Racism.



    As an aside, if you stop and think about it, Progressive Socialists are Fake Americans.

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    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  8. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    In all, Fresno County had nine zip code areas where high lead levels among children tested were at least as common as in Flint. The Reuters article in December documented nearly 3,000 locales nationwide with poisoning rates double those found in the Michigan city along the Flint River. The city of Fresno battles high poverty rates and problems with substandard housing, both risk factors for lead exposure. Some locals are also concerned with drinking water, after unsafe levels of lead were detected in at least 120 Fresno homes last year. Fresno County’s lead poisoning prevention program conducts outreach across the city, and a program health educator, Leticia Berber, says exposure remains too common. Still, she expressed surprise at the area’s high rate. “We haven’t looked at it that way compared to Flint,” Berber said.​


    Now, let's take a look at the demographics here... you know, see if there are some Lizard People hiding about....

    WIKI:
    The 2010 United States Census reported that Fresno County had a population of 930,450. The racial makeup of Fresno County was 515,145 (55.4%) White, 49,523 (5.3%) African American, 15,649 (1.7%) Native American, 89,357 (9.6%) Asian (3.3% Hmong, 1.7% Asian Indian, 1.0% Filipino, 0.8% Laotian, 0.6% Chinese, 0.5% Japanese, 0.5% Cambodian, 0.3% Vietnamese, 0.2% Korean, 0.1% Pakistani, 0.1% Thai), 1,405 (0.2%) Pacific Islander, 217,085 (23.3%) from other races, and 42,286 (4.5%) from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 468,070 persons (50.3%).[23] 46.0% of Fresno County's population is of Mexican descent; 0.7% of its residents are Salvadoran, and 0.3% of its residents are Puerto Rican.​

    Yup, there's them Lizard People.... LOL
     
  9. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Yes. Already posted, in enough detail for you to comprehend the matter. Start with lead exposure, and consider Flint, Michigan as a recent but far from solitary example.

    The question is not whether, but by how much.
    So why didn't you? Why didn't you analyze the nine zip codes at issue for the racial composition of their children, and compare the IQ scores of said children with those of other zip codes not afflicted, likewise broken down by race?

    Or do the same with adults raised inside and outside of the lead zones in Fresno County?

    If you insist on doing something as clueless as using an anecdote like that as evidence for an argument you suggest exists but carefully avoid making, the least you can do is use it , not fuck it up.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  10. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    I don't define "fortune" by a metric. English is my native language, and I know what the word means and how it is used.
    Observation of fact.
    It's supported by your link, and your assertions above. And it's perfectly obvious, common knowledge in general.

    Denial
    No, it doesn't. Not even if it were the case.
    Which it isn't - not even in your typical wingie argument by video, which you somehow take as the voice of "blacks" - an example of your racial bigotry in action, btw.
    It's not a conspiracy, it's 250 years of white racism and its effects on black people in the US.

    Or are you denying that?
     
  11. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Sure you don't want to go for the 1000s years of discrimination against Jews culminating in near-extinction in Europe? Oh, but German Jews (White People) have a very high IQ and within a generation of being starved, murdered and poisoned, were already well on their way to making a handsome living in our Progressive Socialistic paradise where their inherent (genetic) high IQ was/is rewarded with rent-seeker status. Meanwhile, low IQ is punished with 'free' GiverMint shit. This doesn't fit with The Narrative, and so (just as the Yellow People in polluted China having an IQ identical to that of Yellow People in Britain) you ignore it and all other Scientific data.

    Because you're a Science denier. Not really a surprise, ironically, most modern-day Progressive Socialists are.


    As for "it's effects on black people".

    What effects are those iceaura?
    Be specific a list the 'effects' of White Racism and provide good evidence to support YOUR claim.
    Because so far you're just saying 'it's effects' and just saying something without any good evidence is simply babbling nonsensically.


    Sometimes it's good to use an example to illustrate the concept, least the abstraction of 'its effects' become even more nonsensical:

    Q: Which has more of an effect on an individual "Black Person" who would like to get into medical school iceaura? White Racism or a low IQ score? Suppose Person A is a Black Person and has an IQ score of 85 (average) and Person B is a White Person and has an IQ score of 98 (average) and Person C is a Yellow Person and has an IQ score of 105 (average), just who do you think is going to go to medical school, be trained in medicine, and make a lot of money as a rent-seeker in the hyper-regulated healthcare industry?

    Which one would you say has the best chances at getting into medical school?

    Q: Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Yahoo - they all have programs to promote 'Black People' in their corporate structure, and yet they hire mostly Whites and Yellows. Why do you suppose they're hiring so few Black People? Is it White Racism iceaura? Even when the CEO's of these companies are ON RECORD saying they WANT to hire and promote more Black Americans. They're secretly 'White Racists' iceaura? Or..... is it that the IQ level to do high level electrical engineering and write complex coding requires a high IQ? Which is mostly genetic. Which is why Yellow People are employed WAY above their demographic level - they have high-IQ (also Jewish White People).


    Yeah, it's too bad, people like you are screwing up society with your B.S. no differently than the superstitious nonsense of days gone by. Believing B.S. never ends well. Ironically, Progressive Socialistic policies, like Government schools, welfare, licencing scams and hyper-regulations are in fact ruining the lives of many Black People. Not that, THAT matters to your typical Progressive. Nope. What matters is they get to virtue signal and get their dopamine hit for the day before going off to have a coffee.


    Don't worry, science has a pesty way of uncovering the truth. Which in time it will. Then, bye bye The Narrative. We really do need to defund most of the social 'science' programs in universities. They're a complete waste of the tax payers' money

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    Oh, lastly, it should be noted, high-IQ Africans (who are Black People) are doing quite well in the USA. So much so that low-IQ American Black People have been known to attack them. Why? Well, it's the IQ. Not the racism. See, when a Black Person comes to the USA, they're already a certain type of person, a person likely to have a high-IQ. And JUST LIKE other higher IQ people, they are rewarded with prosperity. The data clearly show this to be the case.

    Again, you can try to fit your incorrect Ptolemaic view of the Universe circling the Earth by twisting and turning and looking the other way all day long. But, at the end of the day, Science is going to clearly show the Earth revolves around the Sun. And now you Authoritarians lack the ability to prevent the Galileo's from speaking the truth.

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    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  12. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    More trolling, refusing to define terms of your own assertions, bare assertions in lieu of argument or citations, denying actual black testimony (like what they thing doesn't matter), etc..

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  13. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Off topic. Remember the topic? Repeated for you many times now, in very simple sentences.
    Why? Is somebody denying them?
    Up until the progressives brought in the law, some time after 1960, white racism was obviously more significant. Since then, it's become increasingly a judgment call.
    After all, lower IQ scores themselves, among US blacks, are at least partly - to an as yet unknown but apparently significant extent - a product of the effects of white racism. So your alternatives are not mutually exclusive. They could be the same factor.
    And then if you include all the other factors influenced by white racism, from academic background and legacy admissions to family finances and history (doctors tend to run in families, like police officers and dairy farmers), it's obvious that not only IQ but every other factor impinging on a medical career is influenced by white racism in the US.
    They're not only black people, but genetically similar black people to US black people - from the same areas, tribes, etc, that provided the slaves.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  14. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Get a dictionary, learn what "trolling" means, and quit posting irrelevant videos in thread discussions - among other reasons, because that's actually trolling. In the future, when anyone with sense simply dismisses any video you post as a troll without wasting time on the chance that it has content, this kind of trollpost by you is why. (Your video was some anti-Semitic girl's take on the term "white privilege" - wtf? I mean, I agreed with a lot of what she said about "privilege", which is a very poor choice of label, but that doesn't make it relevant here).

    The topic: denial of the effects of white racism on black people in the US. Privilege is not involved.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  15. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    You've yet to provide evidence that there is a significant effect of white racism on black IQ. You understand the whole concept of 'significance'? That's the reason we preface the word 'effect' with the word 'significant'. Scientist don't ask if there is an effect, as it is an asinine vague question, and thus scientifically irrelevant, one would instead ask the question: Is there a 'significant' effect? As in, identify a specific D.V and set of I.V., gather data, and run analysis. Often to determine if the P-value is less than the alpha value (usually 0.05, though easily 0.001). Why do "Scientists" want a P-value LESS than the alpha value? It's because there's an assumption made via fuzzy (generalized) modus tollens that says something along the lines of: If P, then Q. Formally stated in the null like this: If variables are unrelated, then p-value greater than alpha. Thus when p-value is less than alpha, the premise not Q implies not P, thus rejecting the null and accepting the alternative hypothesis.


    So? With that in mind, what do you think happens when a low-IQ Black Person is lied to their whole life and convinced they're equal to a high-IQ Black Person who's brilliant in mathematics and aces their exams (finding acceptance into academia with ease and the path to prosperity open). What does the low IQ person think? When they're fed a steady life-long diet of hate by people like you. What do they think? Telling them that the only reason they're not in medical school and living life large like a rent-seeker, is because "WHITE".

    What do they think?

    A lifetime of those lies.... what does it do to the way a person thinks? How do you suppose it distorts the decisions of a person of low-IQ when they decide their actions - every day? Maybe, when they see that little old White or Yellow lady walking to her BMW... maybe they think, f*cking bitch. Ripping me off. F*cking me.

    Like this one:
    Chicago pays $22.5 MILLION to woman who was gang raped and plummeted from seventh story window after police failed to take proper care of her

    One wonders why her magical Lizard White People power didn't save her.... just any ole day in Sunny Progressive Social paradise US of A.

    Kind of reminds me of low IQ middle eastern morons who are told (and actually believe - they're THAT stupid) that they're getting 72 never-ending magical virgins.... you know, if they just blow some people up and die while doing it. While I don't think you'd be one of those Imam's race baiting and egging them. I do think you'd have made damn well sure what little top soil they had was fully fertile for those ideas.

    Anyway, hope your virtue signalling is giving you one hell of a dopa hit - you know, to make it worth it. Because, as I said, I'd like to believe in the Blank Slate theory. I'd prefer it's true - except, it's not true. No more true than a short Asian chick is going to play ball like Michael Jordan. Not happening - not without the right set of genes, and those are simply an act of good fortune. Luck.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  16. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Sure I have: the racial gap in IQ, combined with the plethora of available mechanisms influenced by white racism and unevenly distributed by race accordingly. Lead exposure in childhood, for example. Stereotype effect. It's a fairly long list. You've got a correlation, and a whole slew of available mechanisms, every single one of them influenced by white racism.

    It's not conclusive evidence one way or the other, because nobody has done adequate studies controlling for a single one of those obvious factors, but it's there. Which is a lot more than you can claim, for your silly notion that things like the Jim Crow laws, the redlining, the police oppression, and their current effects, were motivated by IQ estimates.

    You think black people find out about white racism when people like me tell them about it? That they wouldn't notice, otherwise?
     
  17. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    That seems like a pretty silly distinction. Who's to decide what effects are "significant"?

    Do tornadoes have significant effects? Sure, they cause hundreds of deaths and millions of dollars in damage but it's not in my back yard so it isn't significant.

    "Significance" seems to be an excuse for ignoring the evidence.
     
  18. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    One video, not "videos". You're imagining things. And of course you would call a black person's opinion "irrelevant". So anyone you criticizes a specific person whose opinions they disagree, is anti-Semitic just because that person has a Jewish name? Talk about the height of identity politics.

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    If you want to define the topic, create a new one.
    The existence of tornadoes does not require a scientific test. Significance differentiates results from normal variability.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_significance
     
  19. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    The entire video was about "white privilege", and so it had nothing to do with the OP postings or any of my postings here. Meanwhile, your taking the video as the opinion of "blacks", and the video maker as a spokesperson for "blacks", was an example of racial bigotry, on your part.

    The topic is your denial of the effects of white racism on black people in the US. Your apparently blindness to racism on your part may partly explain that denial.
    Your video talker delivered stereotypical anti-Semitic bs. That's why I refereed to them as anti-Semitic.
    Mine comes directly from the two posts of the OP, which introduced the topic of this thread. If you are replying to any of my posts in this thread, that's the topic of them - if it isn't your topic, don't pretend to be replying to my posts, or dealing with the issues of the OP.
     
  20. Syne Sine qua non Valued Senior Member

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    Did I say "all blacks"? No, but that's how bigots read it. But the expressed view does exist, and denying it only demonstrates your dismissal of minority views among blacks (stereotyping all blacks as sharing the same opinion, as if they aren't capable of independent thought....disgusting). Taking a black person's opinion at face value and granting it validity is not racist. But you'd know that if you weren't denying your own racism.

    Even blacks think more blacks are racist than whites.
    Among black Americans, 31% think most blacks are racist, while 24% consider most whites racist and 15% view most Hispanics that way. - http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...s_view_blacks_as_racist_than_whites_hispanics
    Or is that just another black opinion you think is "irrelevant"?

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    She's giving an example of a successful ethnicity...which is the opposite of anti-Semitism. I could make the same argument about Asians, who regularly score higher SATs and earn higher incomes than whites. Are either successful because of privilege? If so, they are more privileged than whites. How did they cause the current worse outcomes for whites?

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    Unless you're the OP'r, you have no say in how a discussion develops.
    You are using the boogeyman of white racism to deny your own, personal racism. After all, if most whites are guilty of racism, you can feel somewhat absolved by flogging other whites in lieu of correcting your own demonstrable bigotry.
     
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    Your taking that irrelevant video as representing "blacks", was racist.
    More irrelevancy. You claim to be responding to my posting, addressing me? - my posting is about the denial of the effects of white racism on black people in the US.
    Notice, btw, the absence of that language - what "blacks think", or whites think - in my posts. Such racist language carries invalid presumptions always; here it also carries irrelevancy of reference - it's off topic when responding to my posts.
    It's not a "black opinion", and it is completely irrelevant here. So far no one is denying black racism here - only white racism.

    You are denying the effects of white racism on black people in the US. That denial is the topic of all my posting here.
    No such dismissal of any views - even the anti-Semitic bigotry of your chosen video, common among black people in the US - exists in my posting.
    When you claim you are responding to my posts, and you instead post irrelevancies, I get to remark on that fact as I see fit.
    Your denial of the effects of white racism on black people in the US will remain, and remain the topic of my posting here, regardless of any personal racism of mine.
    Other people's feelings, your personal psychological obsession.

    Is there something you feel a need to share? Perhaps another thread would be more appropriate.
     
  22. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    You mean lead exposure in a Chocolate City like Flint? News Flash iceaura, plenty of Black People work for the various levels of Governance in the USA and plenty of low-IQ people live in cities like Flint. AND there's MORE low-IQ "White People" than "Black People". According to you, White People must be poisoning White People AND at the same time racist against White People!?

    YOU made the claim of "White Racism" - THAT is NOT the same as lead exposure, which you have yet to show evidence of. You have TWO different claims, yet zero good evidence.

    As for what you should be telling people? You should be telling people that race is a subjective experience (because it is) and that the sooner we shut up about it, the sooner people will correct their incorrect manner of thinking about it. You should be telling people that there are actual objective measurable data, like MRI scans, that can better determine how humans differ from one another. You should be advocating for peaceful parenting, sound money, common law and freedom. As opposed to race-baiting, which is what you are doing.
     
  23. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    The experimenter determines the alpha value to the degree of confidence they want with their claim. An alpha of 0.05 would mean that a P-value not less than alpha and a P-value less than alpha would reject the null and then would accept the alternative (via fuzzy modus tollens) to become a statistically significant effect. You'd be 95% confident in saying the effect was 'significant'.

    Other fields have other alpha values. To claim a new particle exists the alpha is 0.0000000000001 (I may be a zero off).

    That's one way to do it

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