How are people suffering from Covid-19 in your place?

Discussion in 'World Events' started by Saint, Jan 25, 2021.

  1. Saint Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,180
    I am in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia.
    What I can see are:

    1) many small businesses bankrupt due to lockdown, loss of customers
    2) high-class restaurants closed, people not allowed to dine in
    3) barber shops, cosmetic shops go bust also
    4) shopping complex is dead, customers reduced by 90%
    5) cinemas completely shutdown, no new movies, 95% workers laid off
    6) bazaar at night all closed
    7) property market down, hundred thousands of houses cannot find buyers
    8) office vacancies at its peak, many offices cannot be rented out, no business.

    How is your place?
     
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  3. sculptor Valued Senior Member

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    7,556
    It seems that the economic body is suffering from an anaphylactic reaction to the disease?
     
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  5. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    4,881
    Not too bad, actually. Our county enacted sensible measures from the beginning and people have pretty much stuck to the rules. It's a big county, with 40 or so cities, towns and villages scattered over farmland and along three lakeshores. Lots of retirement communities and nursing homes, several hospitals and an army base. We had 675 confirmed cases, 2 currently hospitalized, no deaths, no outbreaks in long-term care.
    One major source of income is tourism and vacationers, which did have a big setback - otoh, many of the old people who come for summer stayed on, because they're safer here than in the city. Some fairly brisk real estate flurries, too, with people moving to houses from apartments, because they're no long tied to an office.
    Restaurants, clothing stores and hairdressers aren't doing well, but if they can come to an agreement with their landlord, they'll recover. Feed stores, hardware stores, office supply and garden supply switched to phone order and curbside pickup back in April. Liquor and beer stores have strict new protocols and are thriving. Everybody got some financial help from the government; beyond that, it's just a matter of being sensible.
    Like, what would the owner of an apartment building gain by throwing out reliable tenants who are temporarily unemployed? What would a township gain by penalizing property owners temporarily unable to meet their tax bill?
    Yes, everything is running on deficit. The pandemic will end; the world won't.
    It's a setback or it's a disaster, depending only on how people handle it.
     
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  7. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    Grocery stores survive here, people buy from nearby shops rather than going to hypermarket.
    Many hotels - small, medium, big, closed down due to poor tourism.
     
  8. Jeeves Valued Senior Member

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    4,881
    The last thing you need is people coming in from wherever, carrying whatever.
    If you're sensible, you either set some of those hotels up as quarantine centers or vaccine/testing stations or temporary shelter for people who are stranded due to travel restrictions or whatever. You suspend their tax payments, put their insurance and licenses on hold, and make funds available to put them back the way were when hotels are needed again.
    Close the restaurants and suspend all their payments, too, until they can make a profit again.
    Same with tourist attractions of every kind.
    Same with apartment rents, mortgages, car payments, insurance premiums.
    You shell out a basic income to all the people who have lost their livelihood.
     
  9. domesticated om Stickler for details Valued Senior Member

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    3,277
    I’m in Georgia, United states. Most everything is open and it’s a coin toss as to whether or not safety measures or guidelines are being followed at any one time.

    We are consistently in the top 5-10 for daily deaths in the United States - although we haven’t passed 200 in a day like Texas, California, Pennsylvania, and NYC.

    We lost a few businesses (a handful of restaurants and movie theaters), but many adapted quickly and continue to thrive.

    There have been no changes at groceries. It’s the one place everyone aggressively adhered to masks, social distancing, and avoiding crowds since the beginning.

    The service industry is the hardest hit. Things like ride-sharing drivers, wait staff, and positions in non-essential businesses.

    Delivery services seem to be thriving.
     
  10. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    4,180
    Americans should all wear masks, President Biden is urging you, let his 100days can see the effective results to curb Covid.
     
  11. Luchito Registered Senior Member

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    206
    Saint:

    I only wear a mask because otherwise I can't enter to the food market store to buy me some goods.

    Right after two weeks of the pandemic, I found out it was a weak virus because only caused the death of people with poor health conditions. Healthy people didn't even feel they were infected and only sporadic cases of rare symptoms because the virus were reported.

    I heard president Trump clarifying that he decided to take emergency measurements because the "experts" estimated about 20 million American deaths because the virus if not extreme measurements are taken. Those so called "experts" were wrong, of course.

    I posted on Twitter and other forums that the best respond was to isolate solely people with poor health conditions but the rest should continue their work as usual. Masks won't do much difference, but if such brings more confidence in people, so be it.

    This virus has shown the true health condition of people all around the world, and America in people health status is at the level of a third world country. Countries were smoking is allowed in public close places (like Italy, Spain) showed that the combination of smoking and the virus gives fatal results. However the World Health Organization sold its soul to the devil and never announced to restrain the vicious of smoking (cigarettes, marijuana, etc)

    While president Trump was fighting the pandemic as it should be according to science ("trial and error"), on the other hand candidate Biden was hiding in his basement for months and never pronounced any initiative to combat the virus. Why do I have to hear what he says now?
     
  12. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    10,288
    This is a science forum, I should point out. What you have said here seems to be quite badly misinformed.

    I can't find any reports of "experts" saying 20 million Americans might die of Covid 19. Imperial College did estimate, last march, that if no precautions were taken, 2.2. million American might die: https://theintercept.com/2020/03/17/coronavirus-air-pollution/. So far there have been > 0.5 million deaths, in spite of the precautions. If that is your idea of a "weak" virus, then it is a good job you are not in a position of authority.

    Most of the precautions taken in the USA were taken at state or city level, in spite of Trump, not because of action from him.

    But tell me, if you think it is a "weak" virus, do you think the vaccination programmes are a waste of time and money?
     
  13. billvon Valued Senior Member

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    19,500
    The experts were right; we would have seen millions dead if we did not take extreme measures. We DID take extreme measures - and "only" half a million people died. If we are lucky, we will be able to end this pandemic with fewer than a million deaths.

    Imagine where we would be if he had rolled over and given up.
    Masks are proven to reduce infection rates. They are one of the reasons we did not see millions of deaths.
    From a WHO study: "Smoking is associated with increased severity of disease and death in hospitalized COVID-19 patients."

    It's too bad you ignored the WHO's research on that.
    He had a plan ready a few days after he won the election. It's here:

    https://joebiden.com/covid-plan/

    And now, finally, infections are trending down across the US.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2021
  14. Luchito Registered Senior Member

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    206
    A typo in my statement, just take out one zero.

    Notice that same results of saved lives could have been obtained by just protecting the poor health condition people.

    It is a weak virus no doubt about it. The scientific evidence to my claim is that healthy people didn't even show symptoms wen they were infected.

    You just can't beat such a fact.


    Vaccinating healthy people is a waste.
     
  15. Luchito Registered Senior Member

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    206
    You can't prove that experts "were right", because in order to do so, you must compare your results with the death rate of a population that didn't take those extreme measures.

    Again, unfortunately, by the rules of the scientific method, you just can't prove what you say. (read my answer right above)

    After I posted on Twitter about the bad combination of smoking and the virus infection, the general doctor, the military dude, was asked about it, and he responded that yes, smoking is not good when is associated with the virus.

    Later WHO also made their studies.

    Problem: No one of them did anything to prevent the sale of cigarettes and marijuana unless until the pandemic was controlled, and I will tell you that thousands and thousands of smokers died because such a deliberated negligence, but you won't mind about it, right?

    Too late. He had no plan when the crisis was in its top killing rate, who needs his plan now when vaccines are already provided?

    Biden proved he is not a leader, he hid himself in his basement when his proposals -if any- were needed.

    Because it has been predicted it will diminish by itself, and the reason: because is a weak virus.
     
  16. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,500
    Right. And while we did not have a control group, we DID have groups that (for example) masked more than other groups. And those groups did better overall. From PNAS:

    "The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts. Public mask wearing is most effective at reducing spread of the virus when compliance is high."

    https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118
    We do indeed have proof. See above.
    So you retract your claim that the WHO "sold its soul to the devil and never announced" the risks. Fair enough.
    You are confused. The WHO has zero ability to pass laws in the United States. Indeed, our previous president withdrew us from the WHO because he did not like them telling the US things like that. If you have no power to do X, not doing X cannot be negligence.
    Biden released his preliminary plan in March of 2020. It is here: https://joebiden.com/covid19/
    Biden released a much more detailed plan on Jan 14th of this year: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/14/bid...n-to-combat-the-covid-pandemic-in-the-us.html
    The "top killing rate" (3461 deaths a day, 7 day average) happened on Jan 26th: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

    Looks like you have gotten too much of your information from the right wing media.
    Trump literally hid in the basement: https://apnews.com/article/a2326518da6b25b4509bef1ec85f5d7f
    Ah! So you are volunteering at your local hospital's COVID ward, carrying bodies and whatnot? Good for you! After all, you are at no risk. Right?
    You don't really understand science, do you.
     
  17. exchemist Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,288
    A typo. Aha, I see.

    There are good reasons why a strategy of isolating at-risk groups has been rejected - by all governments around the world - as an approach. First of all, you would need to classify everybody over 65 as in "poor health" and isolate them all. Then you would need to isolate everyone who was fat. It would be unworkable. It would be ignored. It would be unenforceable. That has been the universal conclusion.

    And it would leave the rest of the community with a very high prevalence of disease. This would have two important consequences. First it would encourage the development of variants of the virus, undermining whatever immunity the population developed. Secondly, it would lead to a large number of "long-Covid" cases, in which people have long-term damage to their health. There is already a growing number of younger people with heart or lung problems, or with a permanently damages sense of taste and smell.

    Your claim that healthy people do not show symptoms is demonstrably false: https://www.livescience.com/genes-for-covid19-coronavirus-severity.html

    My brother's family, all of whom are in good health and not overweight, all caught the virus. My nephew, in his twenties and a fit rower (aviron) has even had it twice, though less seriously the second time. I have had had the virus too, and lost my sense of taste and smell for a fortnight. I am in good health and not overweight, though I am 66 years old.
     
  18. Luchito Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    206
    You still have completely misunderstood the point. You are just saying that masks are also needed to diminish the spread of flu. I don't see you propagating such initiative. Your "silence" about it is the sure evidence that makes you contradict yourself.

    Nope. You failed. The flu is known to have killed millions of people as well, and is more easy to target because is mostly a cold season "pandemic", however masks weren't suggested and less making long lines to enter into stores, closing of business, and more.

    On the contrary, WHO sold its soul because never even suggested to stop temporarily the sale of cigarettes and marijuana unless until a solution for the new virus was obtained. The private sector that makes profit selling those products controlled WHO, no doubt about it.

    Who is talking about changing laws? This is a case of temporary measures. You really don't see it.

    Sure, March 2020... right... and the entire fake news publishers ignored his famous plan and never published it. No one heard Biden with is famous plan challenging president Trump because Biden had no plan at all. Fake news.

    https://joebiden.com/covid19/
    Biden released a much more detailed plan on Jan 14th of this year: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/14/bid...n-to-combat-the-covid-pandemic-in-the-us.html [/QUOTE]

    You seem to be the only one believing such a story.

    There are thousands of news media pictures and videos showing president Trump appearing in public even without a mask in those days. You have no valid argument. You must reconsider and recognize Biden hid in his basement, everybody saw him under the first floor of his residence. You can't erase history.

    Nope, because fanatics over there will try to force me to be vaccinated, to wear funny and unnecessary protection, all that kind of measures that people with good health don't need against the weak virus.
     
  19. Luchito Registered Senior Member

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    206
    I'm 65 years old.

    Evidence that "age" is not a factor to be in poor health is the famous news of people over 90 years old who survived the virus infection.

    You are exposed to bacteria and viruses all the time. And in many cases you don't even know about it. To get infected by those is the "normal" in nature.

    In my case, I think I also got the virus in February last year, I had a kind of diarrhea and some pressure on the head for a few days. Here at home one of us also lost the sense of smell. Even so, everybody went to work and we lived as if it is the normal body reaction when a foreign body gets inside your body. No one in my home was afraid of a weak virus that kills only people with poor health condition.

    Of course side effects are to happen, but this is how nature works. You have been infected by the virus already, then why do you think you need to be vaccinated if at your age you are in good health status? A "just in case"? It makes no sense.

    Look at what is going on now. The pandemic hysteria is a fade already. More and more people are going outside in the middle of Winter season, and they have not been vaccinated yet. Many people are practically waking up to reality. In my family we only took extreme measures to take care of the real sick old members. The rest of us live as usual.

    I do respect the fear of others and use the mask when going near people who are also wearing it. No need from my part to criticize their beliefs. Here we are discussing our points of view, so you are free to let being vaccinated, isolate from others, and so forth. I, from my part, just continue my life as usual as much as is permitted by the current regulations, even when I know some of them are unnecessary.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  20. billvon Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,500
    I am all for people wearing masks:
    1) who have the flu
    2) who are more susceptible to the flu
    3) during a really bad flu year

    But since COVID-19 is killing an order of magnitude more people than the flu, far more caution is wise.
    You're not good at logic either, are you.
    The flu kills about 35,000 people a year in the US. So far in the US (April to April) COVID-19 has killed over 500,000.

    Those two numbers are different. So sorry, you fail math if you think they are the same.
    Again, do a little googling on what the WHO is. (Hint - it's not a government.)

    They did publish it. I saw it. You did not because you get your news from biased right wing sources.

    Expand your sources and you will learn a lot more.
    Yes there are, because he is an irresponsible fool.

    Meanwhile, it is a fact that Trump hid in the basement when protesters scared him. Biden did not.

    And back to what Biden is doing to fight the pandemic - today he brokered a deal between Johnson and Johnson and Merck (a competitor.) Merck will make the J+J vaccine to increase the supply, even though they are in direct competition with J+J.

    That's something Trump could never have done. He would have told Merck to do it, they would have said "we don't really want to . . ." and he would have fired off a dozen angry tweets comparing Merck to Hitler, then gone golfing.
    Thank you for admitting that. Ignorance, fortunately, is curable. Your choice.
     
  21. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    23,055
    If you are so passionate about what you consider to be a hoax, by all means prove your point and deliberately infect yourself, then report back here about your experience and post infection trauma.
    I look forward to you supporting your claim...You never know you may actually be one of the people that survive a couple of weeks hooked up to a ventilator.

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    Last edited: Mar 2, 2021
  22. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    7,689
    In certain parts of the Southeast (US), there is an endless anti-masker vs masker battle going on. Most retail chains, large grocery stores, etc require masks, and you're not permitted inside without one. But, there are small, privately owned restaurants and other places, that don't enforce masks. I've seen many arguments break out over not wanting to wear a mask in public, with store and restaurant management. I don't get it, really. Why is it so difficult to comply? Do these same people complain about speed limits, and having to wear a seat belt?

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  23. wegs Matter & Pixie Dust Valued Senior Member

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    The problem with this line of thinking, is that even though you may have mild symptoms, you could pass the virus to someone else...who will pass it to an elderly person. And so on. If you suspected that you had the virus, even fleetingly last year, you and your family members should have stayed home.

    Covid19 isn't a philosophy lesson, it's a physical virus.
     

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