how can Islam be considered an abrahamic religion?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by FelixC, May 8, 2008.

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  1. FelixC

    FelixC Registered Senior Member

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    134
    MW:
    1. think about it, doesn't it make sense that if humans original homeland was Africa, that we are all descendent's of the African "Adam" & "Eve", then we're all "blacks" that mutated into white, Asian, etc...
    check this out: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/999030.stm
    2. I had trouble reading your post, I couldn't always tell which were your personal words & which were quotes, it seemed that there were no differentiations, except the "footnotes". so that I didn't know when your words ended & the quotes you used started, I had to re-read it to tell
    3. Egypt & Egyptian both look wrong, like the g & y should swap? "Eygpt" I spell it either way, looks like its spelled wrong
     
    FelixC, May 10, 2008
    #21

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  3. FelixC

    FelixC Registered Senior Member

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    it seems to me that Islam is its own religion, unlinked to Judeo/Christianity or even Abraham (who's buried in Hebron in Israel, not in Mecca)
    http://www.sacred-destinations.com/israel/hebron-tombs-of-the-patriarchs.htm

    wouldn't Islam be more properly called Mohammedanism, after its founder; the Hadiths are supposed to be sayings of how he lived his life, what he said, ate, slept, etc...

    why is Mohammad the example used or exemplified? & why him (as supposedly a perfect Muslim) & not someone else (say Abraham or Jesus?)?
    I'm asking because supposedly in the Koran, Mohammad needed to be forgiven for his sins???, while Jesus is considered "sinless" in the Koran??? does that make sense?
     
    FelixC, May 10, 2008
    #22

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  5. Medicine*Woman

    Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    *************
    M*W: If we (our genes) came from out of Africa, it doesn't necessarily mean that we were Black. The theory is that different peoples arose in different gene pools all over the world and not just out of Africa. However, I have no problem with my genes coming out of Africa, because my ancestors adapted to a Europeanesque Caucasian. We all may have the same mitochondrial DNA that we got from our ancestral mother, but we had to adapt to the location in which we lived as well as to the climate and food supply. Otherwise, we would have died out.
    *************
    M*W: My comments were interspersed between the cited material. I think I did miss putting an end-quote on one of the citations. Would you like me to go back and highlight either my words or the references quotes?
    *************
    M*W: Where I come from that is the way we spell "Egypt" and "Egyptian." Hordes of colorful people who came out of India and crossed the Balkans were mistakenly referred to a slang version of "Egyptian." They were called "gypsies."

    *************
    M*W's Friendly Atheist Quote (FAQ) of the Day:

    "Some like to understand what they believe in. Others like to believe in what they understand." ~ Stanislaw Jerzy Lec

    *************
    M*W's Anti-Bitterness Comments (ABCs) of the Day:

    "A traveler. I love his title. A traveler is to be reverenced as such. His profession is the best symbol of life. Going from -- toward; it is the history of every one of us." ~ Henry David Thoreau, 1817-1862, American Poet, Essayist and Social Critic
     
    Medicine*Woman, May 10, 2008
    #23

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  7. DiamondHearts

    DiamondHearts Registered Senior Member

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    Frankly, you are incorrect. Islam has more in common with Judaism than even Christianity, thus Islam is part of the Abrahamic faiths. Abraham is the father of Isaac (the father of the Jews) and Ismail (the father of the Arabs), hence both have a relation to Abraham.

    No, because Muslims believe Islam is the religion of all the prophets starting with Adam (peace be to him), however the only uncorrupted message is from the last prophet. Muhammadan ism is insulting to Muslims, we don't worship Prophet Muhammad (peace be to him), we worship the one and only God, God of Abraham.

    The Prophet Muhammad (peace be to him) is the last prophet and the seal of the prophets. More is known about him than is known about Prophets Jesus and Abraham (peace be to them), simply because he is the latest of the prophets, the prophet sent to guide all of humanity. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was sinless, just as Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) was. They were both chosen as prophets because of their benevolence as prophets.

    Do you have any concrete reasons why Islam should not be considered an Abrahamic religion?
     
    DiamondHearts, May 11, 2008
    #24
  8. Fraggle Rocker

    Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    24,690
    The Ancient Egyptians were not of the same stock as the sub-Saharan Africans, at least based on what little we can deduce from such evidence as their language. They were most probably members of a large ethnic group that included people on both sides of the Red Sea, including the Semites. The Afro-Asiatic language family includes Egyptian, Amharic, Hebrew, Arabic and Aramaic, among many others.
    His point is basically valid. DNA analysis performed just in the last couple of years, coupled with extensive anthropological and archeological research, settles the issue incontrovertibly that all humans outside of Africa are the descendants of two waves of migration out of Africa roughly 50,000 years ago. (There are a couple of threads on SciForums with citations.) Furthermore, we're the descendants of one fairly small group, and the ones who stayed behind are the San or Bushmen. We're not so closely related to other Africans at all. But to get back to the point, fifty thousand years is a long time and many mutations have taken place. Some of the genes that identify specific non-African ethnic groups may not have existed when our ancestors were in Africa. Many visible traits such as skin color are quite ephemeral and can just as easily be the result of mutation and environmental factors, as much as ancestry.
    That is in fact what most Americans called it back in the 1950s. And the people were Mohammedans.
    We outsiders see a clear commonality among Judaism, Christianity and Islam, regardless of how the believers in the three religions might prefer to highlight their differences. They believe in the same one god, and their mythologies are clearly set in the same milieu with the same species of supernatural creatures such as angels and even the same individuals of those species such as Gabriel. They don't necessarily regard each other's holy books as holy yet they do regard them as history. Both Jews and Muslims accept Jesus as an actual historical figure, despite the absence of reliable evidence for his existence. They believe in the same heaven and the same hell, and their god judges us in the same way upon our death in order to decide which place to send us to.

    To an unreligious person these are just three variants of the same fable. I can't imagine that Hindus, Buddhists and members of other less widely dispersed religions don't also feel the same way about it. Abrahamism is a religion of monotheism, prophecies, judgment and aferlife. Judaism, Christianity and Islam are three of its sects, which are further dvided into smaller sects.
    Again, to someone outside of the Abrahamic community, Mormonism is just another offshoot of Christianity and therefore an Abrahamic faith. They even call it the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints and they pray to the same god as the Jews, the Muslims and the other Christians.
    Still it's neither incorrect nor disrespectful to name a people after their human leader, and Mohammed founded the religion. Nonetheless this is surely why we stopped calling it that in the late 1960s. There were a few years before the seizure of the embassy in Tehran and definitively ending with the attack on the WTC, when the American people (as distinct from the scoundrels who have taken over our government) were beginning to feel cordial toward Muslims and strove to treat them more decently, especially in matters that only required linguistic energy.
    Not to mention, he was a real person.

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    Jesus was almost certainly not.
    The Ancient Egyptians called their country Kemet. (The vowels are arbitrary hypotheses since they only wrote the consonants.) "Egypt" comes down to us from the Greek words aegaeon yptios which simply means "below the Aegean." The Romans adopted the name and it eventually became standard throughout Europe. It has no other significance and is not a relic of Egyptian civilization or language.
     
    Fraggle Rocker, May 11, 2008
    #25
  9. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Egyptians call their country Misr and themselves Misris or Masris (the actual sound is somewhere in between).

    The official name is Junhuriyah Misr al-Arabiyah, which in English means the Arab Republic of Egypt
     
    S.A.M., May 11, 2008
    #26
  10. Michael

    Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    You are probably right - but the possibility exists Mohammad was a composit character.

    Many Xians do not concider Mormons Xian.

    Are the Bahai an Abrahamic religion?

    How many Abrahamic religions are there?

    Are Mandeans an Abrahamic religion?
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2008
    Michael, May 11, 2008
    #27
  11. (Q)

    (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    20,855
    That is a lie.

    The Quran has been corrupted as well, hence should also be avoided.

    Hence, it is clear Islam was contrived by men to suit their agendas.
     
    (Q), May 11, 2008
    #28
  12. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    :roflmao:

    Exhibit A:
     
    S.A.M., May 11, 2008
    #29
  13. Enmos

    Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    How is that flaming ?
     
    Enmos, May 11, 2008
    #30
  14. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    You're an atheist, you would not understand.

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    S.A.M., May 11, 2008
    #31
  15. Enmos

    Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    43,184
    Does that mean that DiamondHearts was also flaming when he said:
    "No, the reason for this is that we believe the Bible has been corrupted by men's hands. There is truth in it, but we believe there is also falsehood, so we avoid it."
     
    Enmos, May 11, 2008
    #32
  16. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    No, he is stating the Islamic belief, not his opinion.
     
    S.A.M., May 11, 2008
    #33
  17. (Q)

    (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    And, because it's a religious belief, it's perfectly acceptable? If an opinion, it's reprehensible?

    The self-serving, narcissistic, holier-than-thou audacities the theist will bleat are beyond reproach. And they will do so without shame or moral.
     
    (Q), May 11, 2008
    #34
  18. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Are you stating as a fact that the Bible has not been altered?
     
    S.A.M., May 11, 2008
    #35
  19. Enmos

    Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    According to you Q was just stating his atheistic belief..
    Am I right ?
     
    Enmos, May 11, 2008
    #36
  20. (Q)

    (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    One thing is certain, YOU are not able to carry on a discussion without putting words in others mouths, deceiving with propaganda, following an endless trail of intellectually dishonest discourse down long, dark rat holes all the while fronting this fallacious facade with religious indoctrination as your guide.
     
    (Q), May 11, 2008
    #37
  21. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I'll take that as a no.
     
    S.A.M., May 11, 2008
    #38
  22. (Q)

    (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.” ~~Dawkins
     
    (Q), May 11, 2008
    #39
  23. S.A.M.

    S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Based on what moral values? Does Dawkins have the same opinion of nature? Is he leaving the planet?
     
    S.A.M., May 11, 2008
    #40
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