How did jesus walk on water?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by spidergoat, Nov 25, 2006.

  1. spidergoat Liddle' Dick Tater Valued Senior Member

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    Jesus may not have walked on water as the Bible claims but rather skated on ice formed through a freak cold spell, a scientific study has suggested.
    Isn't ice water?
    Is the scientific hypothesis more likely than the religious one? Are they compatible in some way, along the lines of Galileo;

    I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

    So, if the ice theory is true and the bible is true, what is the significance of this act?
    If Jesus intended it be educational, what was the lesson?
    Would it be any less of a miracle if Jesus knew the conditions on the Sea of Galilee from observation? Black ice looks very much like water, especially if it is wet. Did it demonstrate faith to walk across a perilous and partially frozen surface?
    Or did he create a machine that allows you to walk on water through his supernatural powers?
     
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  3. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

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    Not that I believe any of of the scriptures, but it's feasible that one with enough knowledge of a particular stretch of water could walk along a sandbank just hidden beneath the waves.
     
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  5. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    No he walked on water, just like The Buddha did, and just like many other ascetics did. In the East walking on water is nothing, its just another siddhi/iddhi/vibhuti power, when your consciousness is elevated to a certain degree, you naturally gain powers like these.
     
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  7. baumgarten fuck the man Registered Senior Member

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    I have gone for walks on the water plenty of times: At the piers in Manhattan, on the beach, along the riverside...
     
  8. tablariddim forexU2 Valued Senior Member

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    Prove it.
     
  9. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    He's Criss Angel, man.

    MINDFREAK!
     
  10. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    Who says he walked on water?
     
  11. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    How can I actually prove it? All I can really say is in my opinion, Jesus, the Son of the most high, really did walk on water because its just another power that people with elevated consicousness naturally possess.

    So if Jesus really was the Son of the most high, a true spiritual master, a perfected being, he would by nature possess these powers, and perform many miracles.

    Here's what Gautama Buddha says about iddhis or Superhuman powers:

    "In the miracle of Iddhi, Iddhipatihariya (Superhuman power) the Bhikkhu experiences various kinds of power. From one form he becomes many, and from many he becomes one again; he becomes visible or invisible, passes through wall and rocks without touching them, as if they were space. He dives into and emerges from the earth as if it were water, and walks on water without disturbing the surface as if it were land; sitting crossed-legged, he moves in the sky like a bird. The Moon and the Sun in all their majesty, he touches and strokes with his hand, continuing with his body up to the realm of Brahma. When trusting person sees the Bhikkhu perform these acts, he relates it to some sceptic saying "The power and majesty of the Samana are stupendous. I saw him transforming himself from one form into many and so on." Then the sceptic says "That is the 'Gandhara charm' making the Bhikkhu perform those acts. What do you think, Kevaddha, would not the sceptic say so to the trusting one?" Kevaddha replied "He would, Sir." Thereupon, the Buddha warned "Well, seeing this advantage of the iddhi miracles, I am vexed with them; I deplore them and am disgusted with them"

    Here's what the Yoga Sutras say:

    "By mastery of the vital energy situated in the throat, the Yogi can float or walk on water, swamps, thorns and so forth without touching them, for this is the power of levitation and ascension." (Yoga Sutras, 3.40)
     
  12. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    And yet they can't. So that would lead us to conclude the yogi sutras are fantasy.
     
  13. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    spidergoat,

    Working under the assumption that Jesus never existed - am I correct to assume that you believe as such?

    Well, anyway, I would say the story has a moral to be imparted to the common folk and for the initiate there is probably a geometric secret encoded in the numeric value of the words used to describe the event. Also note that Hercules also walked on water and as early Xian/new-age-Jews were trying to conform to Hellenic ideals they surely would have made sure Jesus acted, at the very least, as did the half-man half-Gods of the Greek and Egyptian pantheons.

    Further, I heard it said that Buddhist monks have always considered walking on water a sign of a true ascetic. Surely since the early Xian-Jews were so adapt at plagiarizing every religions dogma they could get their hands on, they would have written this one into their Myth. So I suppose I am saying there is no need to look for a scientific explanation on this account – it is simply a common myth, purposefully selected and then written into the early Xian literature. Like the other 99% of Judaism and Xianity.

    Michael
     
  14. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Or alternatively, if as the buddhists advocate, it is a generic symptom of ascetism, its hardly surprising that jesus walked on water, since such a description would tally with his callibre.

    In other words given that there are certain claims about the type of personality that jesus was, its not clear why he is assumed to be bereft of the characteristics/qualifications that such personalities are readily identified by.
     
  15. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    Exactly, it would be more surprising if Jesus never performed an miracles at all or never possessed any supernormal powers, as they are natural symptoms...
     
  16. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    Oh SkinWalker, you must be all-knowing, possessing knowledge of all. You KNOW exactly what is true and what is not true. This is the typical atheistic comment. You're so narrow-minded, you KNOW you're right, everyone else is wrong, there's no point in debating, you already KNOW whats true and whats not true.
     
  17. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    Then If jesus was advocated to be like some guy who sold taco shells the anti-party would jump on him and say he is just a mundane person who's views on god hold no merit - lol

    The argument seems to be that descriptions of jesus, either way with or without mystic perfections, are indications that jesus did not exist - seems like a case of wrenching evidence to fit a predetermined conclusion
     
  18. Athelwulf Rest in peace Kurt... Registered Senior Member

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    Magic!
     
  19. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    It's human nature to fantasize that certain humans among us can perform "miracles" or supernatural feats. Each of which are never empirically demonstrated but "written" and "said" by debunked authors of myths and legends.

    The evidence to support my assertion is in the fiction and fantasy writing of modern humans, which depict superheros and "mutants" that perform their miracles to save humanity: the Supermans, Batmans, and Tics of comic books; Aragons and hobbits of literature; and the Obi Wan Kenobis of film. There are also the various nutters that claim powers of ESP, remote viewing, channeling spirits, and spoon bending (now THERES a superpower for the comic books), among many, many others.

    What would be "surprising" is if Bronze Age authors of modern superstition didn't find similar "skills" fantastic enough to imagine and write of.

    Nor is it surprising that the credulous find special allure with the tales of the ancient. Particularly since they can so easily say to the skeptic, "oh yeah? Well you can't prove Jesus didn't walk on water and Buddha shat daisies."
     
  20. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    No, I'm the one that's being open-minded instead of closed off to more parsimonious and logical explanations that don't involve the supernatural. If yogis can fly or walk on water, what is your evidence? Surely you aren't relying on "scripture" alone? Would this not be the very narrow-mindedness you pretend to abhor?

    But you're fallacious accusations of how I must be "all knowing, etc.," while flattering, are simply more appeals to personal incredulity. If it cannot be disproved whatever silly fantasy enters the brain must be valid, eh?
     
  21. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    So we have two phenomena

    One is the writings of persons in highly philosophical treatises about the nature of reality.

    The other is the works by story tellers who's expertise lies purely in creating fiction.

    If you want to draw a credible connection that is not purely tentative, it requires much more
     
  22. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

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    There's no good evidence that a person whom we refer to as "Jesus" did exist. But that point is irrelevant. The teachings and wisdom alleged to the alleged christ are sound, for the most part. If he was a real person, then his philosophy would stand on its own merit if, indeed, the philosophy attributed to him were his.

    What is disagreed with by the reasoned mind is that there is a need to attribute this character with magic. The literary evidence presented to us in the Christian bible is such that we can dismiss the five gospels as legitimate observations of direct witnesses. They simply weren't for a whole host of reasons that, perhaps, deserve their own thread. Dismissing the validity of the "witnesses" as direct observers, we can then understand that the feats of magic attributed to Jesus were but regurgitations of feats of magic expected by the divine during the period. Thus, no reason to accept magical nonsense like "walking on water" since this simply isn't within the boundaries of physics as we know it unless the water is presented in its solid state assuming that Jesus didn't wear big, inflatable shoes.

    So, what we are left with, in such a discussion, is exactly what LG suggested: pre-determined conclusions for which information is filtered to fit. Except, the conclusion is that such miracles are fact and normal and all evidence to the contrary is ignored in favor of the magical explanation. Poppycock.
     
  23. VitalOne Banned Banned

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    According to the Yoga Sutras memory (smriti) and deep habit patterns (samskaras) are intimately connected. This is found to be true in psychology and neurology. According to you, the Yoga Sutras is all fantasy, so then why is that statement in the Yoga Sutras true (4.9)?
     

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