How did surnames originate?

Discussion in 'Linguistics' started by Magical Realist, Aug 15, 2013.

  1. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    At what point in history did families start acquiring names? What country did this start in? How were surnames chosen? Just curious..
     
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  3. arauca Banned Banned

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    Pioter Sergeivitch . Son of Sergei ///Id, Jesus of Nazaret, Tom Schmidt. Tom the schmidt of the vilage
     
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  5. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    I only recollect 3 Biblical figures with true last names: Mary Magdelene, Judas Iscariot, and Simon Magus. None of these figures were especially well thought of. Did only bad people have surnames back then? BTW, some might say Julius Caesar is an example of a surname. Not really since Caesar was a title of position and not a family name. It'd be like saying Baruch President. Mark Anthony? Now THAT may be a true surname.
     
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  7. arauca Banned Banned

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    Simon the cyrinean that helped carry the cross for Yashua . John the Baptist . Herod the tetrarck , Joseph the Carpinter
     
  8. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    All titles denoting region of origin or occupation. Not true surnames. Like saying George the Garbageman, Bill the Mailman, Elisabeth the Nurse, etc.
     
  9. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Don't know about ALL of them but many originated from occupations: John Smith, Baker, Cooper (barrel maker), etc. and many others as "son of" as in Thomason, Johnson, etc.
     
  10. Janus58 Valued Senior Member

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    But that's how many surnames originated. George the Garbageman eventually became George Garbageman, Bill the Barber became Bill Barber, Etc. Other characteristic were also used. Tom, who lived by where two rivers joined, became Tom Rivers.
     
  11. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    True enough. And then there was the "son of so and so" surname. Patterson= Patter's son. Williamson= William's son. Johnson= John's son. Richardson= Richard's son.
     
  12. arauca Banned Banned

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    Friend this how it starts in different region . Name for identification start win the trade of the individual and if you look in the Scandinavian you will find . Johanson , stevenson , tomson , it end up in who is you father I mentioned Pioter Sergeivich which mean peter the son of Sergey in slavic culture , now if you look into Ashkenazim culture you will find colors like green brown silver, gold, copper, and then there are those which have a choise to bring back an ancestral name example Perez.
     
  13. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    It should be mentioned that surnames and family names are not exactly the same thing. Surnames (French sur = "on") are names that are tacked on to the common name to distinguish people with the same common name - e.g. John the Thatcher and John the Miller. "Farmer" would be used as a surname less often because almost everybody was a farmer.

    Some surnames were eventually passed down from generation to generation and became family names - e.g. Alan Shepherd, Scott Carpenter. Other family names might be derived from location - e.g. John of the Woods. It would make sense to call his descendents "Woods" if they still lived there.

    If I had to guess when it all stared, I'd say probably soon after the invention of names, which was probably soon after the invention of speech.
     
  14. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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  15. mathman Valued Senior Member

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    Roman personal names generally had three parts. Caesar's full name was Gaius Julius Caesar. Gauis was the equivalent of what we call first name, Julius was the name of his clan, while Caesar was the family name.
     
  16. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    Thank you. I stand corrected. Wikipedia confirmed that Caesar was indeed originally a family name or cognomen:

    "Caesar (plural Caesars; Latin: Caesar, plural: Caesares) is a title of imperial character. It derives from the cognomen of Julius Caesar, the Roman dictator. The change from being a familial name to a title adopted by the Roman Emperors can be dated to about AD 68/69, the so-called "Year of the Four Emperors"."--Caesar (title) Wikipedia

    This may actually answer my question about by whom and when surnames were started. Roman citizens' last names were called their cognomens, about which Wikipedia says:

    "The cognomen (/kɒɡˈnoʊmɛn/,[1] /ˈkɒɡnəmən/;[2] Latin: [koːŋˈnoːmen]; Latin plural cōgnōmina; con- "together with" and (g)nōmen "name") was the third name of a citizen of ancient Rome, under Roman naming conventions. The cognomen started as a nickname, but lost that purpose when it became hereditary. Hereditary cognomina were used to augment the second name (the family name, or clan name) in order to identify a particular branch within a family or family within a clan. Outside of this particular use of the word, the term has taken on a variety of other meanings in the contemporary era."---http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognomen
     
  17. KitemanSA Registered Senior Member

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    If I had to guess, I think "names", i.e. vocal distinguishers, PRECEEDED language as we think of it today.
     
  18. KitemanSA Registered Senior Member

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    Surnames became family names.

    But by the original definition of "surname", aren't middle names ALSO surnames?
     
  19. KitemanSA Registered Senior Member

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    Actually, Egyptians had several names back in the time of the first dynasty, no?
     
  20. Magical Realist Valued Senior Member

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    You tell me..I have no idea.
     
  21. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

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    (No double-E in "precede.") Dolphins have names. They use them to identify themselves and to call each other.

    Perhaps. But we don't use that definition anymore so it doesn't really matter.

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    In Iceland, it's not uncommon for girls to be given a surname built on their mother's given name: Kristin Ingridsdóttir. If the mother is a celebrity in her profession, even her sons might be named that way: Leif Indgridsson.

    Many English surnames were originally place names, with centuries of spelling and phonetic changes rendering them unrecognizable. The original Houston, for example, was a small region in Scotland. Its history goes back to the Bronze Age, and it is also the site of a Roman fort. The earliest name we have for it is Kilpeter. In the 12th century the local sheriff granted the lands of Kilpeter to Hugh of Pettinain, one of the Norman French occupiers of Britannia. Eventually it became known as Hugh's tun or "Hugh's manor," with "tun" as an early form of our word "town."

    French was the official language of England in those days so there were no rules for spelling English words and names. Eventually it was standardized as Houston. People who lived in the region were welcome to use Houston as a surname when moving to another part of Scotland or England.

    Sam Houston's family was originally from Scotland, so it's likely that one of his ancestors came from that town.

    So now America's fourth-largest city is named Houston.
     
  22. sideshowbob Sorry, wrong number. Valued Senior Member

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    You're probably right. Individual forms of "Hey, you!" would have been among the first "words".
     
  23. Trooper Secular Sanity Valued Senior Member

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    “While given names have been used from the most distant times to identify individuals, the advent of surnames is a relatively recent phenomenon.

    Many cultures have used and continue to use additional descriptive terms in identifying individuals. These terms may indicate personal attributes, location of origin, occupation, parentage, patronage, adoption, or clan affiliation.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_name#History
     

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