How do you feel about people who kill animals for the sheer fun of it?

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by Saven, May 3, 2009.

  1. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    One could argue that human leisure activities are necessary for our mental well-being. We evolved as hunter-gatherers, so it's hard to leave behind that instinctive behavior. Most of our games resemble the hunt in some form. If we kill too, that's just being true to the essential spirit of the urge. Sometimes, as in the case with culling deer populations, it's happens to be helpful.
     
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  3. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    Yay! Another pointless attempt by veggies to demonize hunters.

    I'm not much into hunting, but I have hunted a time or two. Didn't like using guns though. I made one kill with just my hands and my friend used a knife on one and his hands on another. Running down prey is very primeval as is lying in ambush. Cooking out in the bush over a fire was fun too.

    Sure there are people with the pansy gene who have no hunter instinct. They can stay home and grub in the dirt for their food. It takes all types after all.

    Lets all just get along.

    But its nice to know that if we can't all get along, at least I know who is going down.

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  5. Saven Registered Member

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    Chimps don't know the can't live on meat. It's in their diet to eat meat, however. So they do. It's survival-killing again.

    Actually there is something wrong with it: it's demented, and even kind of sad.
     
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  7. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Well, the OP only mentioned killing for the sheer fun of it. It seems reasonable to oppose that with killing out of necessity to make a distinction.
    I fully agree with what you say about meat consumption, the amounts consumed are completely ridiculous.
    I only eat meat twice, sometimes three times, a week and then it's just a small piece.

    Ok, I agree with this. But since even our primitive brains can make the distinction, the two situations must be different then.. right ?

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  8. Saven Registered Member

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    Yeah, the braindead ones.

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    There is no pansy gene, and there's really not a human hunter instinct. People who hunt for fun only pretend to have an instinct to do so, in order to rationalize why they do it. For them, the desire is forced and ingenuine -- and that includes yourself. They feign a liking to hunt in the wild because it helps make them feel macho, forceful, and cool.

    Such behavior is *definitely* basic, but it's entertaining to observe all the same.

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    Last edited: May 7, 2009
  9. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    But the amount of meat in their diet is small, obviously not necessary for survival. This proves that the purpose isn't nutrition, it is social.

    They also kill secondarily for defense and revenge, but those are more rare.
     
  10. John99 Banned Banned

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    i guess i am a 'pansy' because i cant kill an animal. even fish, when they come out of the water i want to kiss them.
     
  11. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

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    Can you not see the difference between killing because it's absolutely necessary and killing for fun??
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2009
  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Depends on the killer, I guess

    A hunting joke:

    Three guys go on a hunting trip. It isn't a particularly fruitful day. Empty-handed, they start their trek back to the campsite. Bob says, "Hey, you guys go ahead. I need to take a shit."

    So Bob leaves the trail to squat behind a tree while his friends head on to the campsite. Along the way, Fred and Joe spy a prize buck just waiting to be killed. It's over quickly.

    But it's hard to lug this thing all the way back to the campsite, so they start cutting it up in the field. It takes a while, and eventually Fred wonders, "Where the hell is Bob?"

    So Joe goes looking for Bob and finds him asleep with his back against a log. Bastard! Joe thinks, and then an idea occurs to him. He returns to Fred and the buck and scoops up the entrails, carrying them to where Bob is and deposits them behind the log.

    Eventually, Joe and Fred get the buck back to camp, but still there's no sign of Bob. Worried that he might have just done something really stupid, like invite a bear to attack Bob, he sets out to find his friend. Halfway there, he finds Bob walking gingerly back to camp.

    "Bob! Are you okay? What the hell happened?"

    Bob shakes his head in disbelief. "Man," he says, "I pushed so hard I shit my guts out. But it's okay. With a little brains and a stick, I managed to fix everything."​

    As with many things, there is a difference between theory and practice. Journalists are defenders of the common man, or so says the myth. Then again, the state of journalism today is pretty sad. Capitalism is supposed to create opportunity and encourage prosperity, but in practice our society widens the gap between rich and poor, making it harder for the lower strata to move upward. And hunting ... I've heard all sorts of things from the nobility of tradition to the spirituality of killing animals. And yet, the clear majority of hunters I know, when they start talking about their hunting, settle into this apparent bloodlust that completely betrays the nobility and spirituality of the hunt. For these particular people, it's more about killing shit than anything else.

    And perhaps one might find that notion demonizing, but in psychological terms that sort of bloodlust just isn't healthy.

    As for myself, it depends on the hunter. You want to eat a deer? Fine. Not my thing, but neither is it my place to object. To the other, though, I once had dinner at a house where the hunter liked to kill two of everything; his taxidermist would arrange the animals in the appearance of coitus.

    Yeah, a bunch of dead animals fucking.

    And the guy was especially proud of an occasion in which he claimed to have been called by friends up in Alaska. Their dogs had treed a large cat of some sort. The guy dropped everything he was doing in McMinnville, Oregon, flew up to Alaska, hired transport out into the middle of nowhere, shot the cat, paid his friends for their help, and left them to deal with the corpse while he flew back to Oregon.

    It's really hard to respect hunting if that's how it goes.

    On the flip side, we were acquainted with our host through a friend's uncle. And the uncle's brother, as I recall, had been a high-ranking fish and wildlife official in Alaska. The story goes that he got some big animal, an irresistible target, and while he was figuring how to transport it back to his truck, he heard a strange noise. Checking it out, he found that it was a car passing on a nearby road. So he drove a stake into the ground to mark the kill spot, moved the animal out, and literally returned to the kill site with a long tape measure. Turns out he was thirty or so feet too close to a road to be shooting at anything.

    Nobody knew.

    He went to work the following Monday and resigned.

    Severe, I admit, but I can't help but respect that kind of integrity.

    I asked around the family. My friend's parents, the uncle's ex-wife, and even the distant lesbian cousin I'd never heard of until I met her. Uniformly, they all vouch for the story.
     
  13. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Sorry, but nothing is refuted.

    Here you answer your own question:
     
  14. Roman Banned Banned

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    What?
    You said "uh-huh" and I said "nuh-uh" and you said "uh-huh" and then I said "nuh-uh" and then you were all "oh I agree."
     
  15. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, I agreed with those posts.
    But those post answered your own question: "Why is murdering an animal so you can eat it any different than murdering an animal because you enjoyed murdering it?"
     
  16. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Mod Hat — (Ahem ....)

    Mod Hat — (Ahem ....)

    So ... yeah. How about we all take a step back and maybe a couple of deep breaths. You know, time out?

    Or else I'll force one.

    And if I have to do that, sanctions will follow.

    We all clear on that?

    Good.

    Now, then ... carry on, and in a more civilized manner.
     
  17. Roman Banned Banned

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    No; I answered why we FEEL that murdering an animal so you can eat it any different than murdering an animal because you enjoyed murdering it. My claim is that there isn't any difference, we just feel like there's one. James R has the best and most rational defense of vegetarianism I've ever heard. I'm really just repeating his argument.
     
  18. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Ah, you're actually arguing against objective morality.
    I have to agree with you on that one.

    I think taking this any further would be horribly off-topic though.
    We'd probably end up discussing objective reality

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  19. jessiej920 Shake them dice and roll 'em Valued Senior Member

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    For me, personally, hunting just isn't my thing.

    In fact, I was a vegetarian for years and I have always struggled with meat 'issues'

    I know people will put me on blast for saying so, but I just think hunting and killing for sport is cruel and wasteful. I also think that the amount of meat consumed on average is far too high and the beef/pork/poultry industry plays a huge part in destroying our environment and animal cruelty as well.

    I don't know. We already have an excess amount of animals who have been raised to be slaughtered and consumed by humans so I really don't see the need for anyone to go out and shoot a deer or a bear or whatever and then claim that it isn't wasteful. Not unless they cannot afford to buy meat and must hunt to feed themselves and their family.
     
  20. Thoreau Valued Senior Member

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    As long as I can kill them for the fun of it, not that I would.

    But honestly, I think there has got to be something sick and twisted about a person that can kill without reason.
     
  21. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Not without reason, but is that reason legitimate?

    It's not without a reason: They get off on it.

    Whether you or I think that reason is legitimate, functional, or even sane is another question. Personally, I think the enjoyment of killing is indicative of psychological (mal-)adjustment. That is, I think it fosters an unhealthy psychological outlook (maladjusted), but also reflects a long standard (adjusted).

    Killing animals for the hell of it is a practice with long cultural acceptance and even advocacy. Increased community psychological health will, over the long run, reduce the number of people compelled to go out and kill something for fun.

    Insects, for instance, are said to not feel pain. Yet we think of the proverbial boy with the magnifying glass setting ants on fire as indicative of dysfunction. What does it matter? He's just killing something for fun, right?

    The common link is the compulsion to destroy life for fun.
     
  22. John99 Banned Banned

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    obviously. please see post 184.

    Mod Note: Deleted posts from earlier in the thread have caused what was post #184 to move. Starting from the beginning of the thread, I failed to account for this before I reached this post. I believe the post in question is Norsefire's, at #178. John, you are free to strike this note and correct the post number if I've gotten it wrong. Or, if you like, you can also strike this note and simply change the post reference even if I got it right. M'apologies. I knew this post existed before I started slashing through the thread and forgot to track the post's movement.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2009
  23. Saven Registered Member

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    I'm forced to agree with the both of you. There's a very limited number of reasons why would would enjoy killing... and none of them bode well for a person's psychological health.

    Either they delight in the experience of causing pain, or they like the feeling of holding something's life in their hands. Something's messed up with that... and it's HIGHLY unnatural. Those are two things that animals do not think about. Only humans do.
     

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