How is heat carried by photons?

Discussion in 'Physics & Math' started by Saint, Apr 27, 2020.

  1. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    You feel the heat under the Sun.
    Sunlight carry heat, right?
    Photon is massless, how does it carry heat energy with it to travel so far?
     
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  3. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    It doesn't

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  5. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    Correct
    Wrong
    Correct
    It doesn't

    Have you tried Wikipedia?

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  7. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    A photon carries electromagnetic energy, according to Planck's relation, E = hν, in which E is energy, h is Planck's constant and ν is the frequency of the radiation. So the higher the frequency the more energy each photon carries.

    Photons with frequencies in the range 3GHz-30THz, corresponding to wavelengths in the range 10cm-10μ, are of the right energy to excite rotations and vibrations of molecules. Rotations and vibrations of molecules, along with translational motion of the whole molecule, involve molecular kinetic energy, which corresponds to heat.

    More energetic photons, in the visible region, excite electrons from the ground state to excited states. These excited states can lose energy again either by re-radiating another photon or via more complicated processes*, involving vibration and collision of molecules, which convert the energy of the electronic excited states to vibrational, rotational and translational kinetic energy, i.e. to heat.

    In summary, photons carry energy which, when it is absorbed, heats up the object that absorbs it.



    *This is actually a rather complicated and interesting field of physical chemistry, known as photochemistry, which was the speciality of my tutor at university.

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  8. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    planets farther away from Sun is cooler, what cause the heat to lose on its way of travel?
    can we measure photon kinetic energy? 1/2 mv^2?
     
  9. Janus58 Valued Senior Member

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    The total energy per sec reaching Jupiter's orbital distance is no less than that reaching Earth's orbital distance. However, it is spread out over a spherical surface some 25 times larger. Thus the energy/sec per square meter is less at Jupiter's orbit because that square meter intercepts a smaller fraction of the total energy per sec emitted by the Sun than a square meter of surface at Earth orbit distance does.
     
  10. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    To add to what Janus has explained, the energy of each photon is the same, but there are fewer photons per unit area, or volume of space, because they are radiating, i.e. moving radially outward, as they move away from the sun.

    Obviously you cannot apply 1/2 mv² to a photon, since it has no mass (m=0).

    I gave you the correct formula for the energy in post 4.
     
  11. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    Side question:
    I read that photon can not escape black hole.
    When a photon is trapped into a black hole, will it increase its speed?
    But theory of relativity says speed of light is constant.
     
  12. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    You understand that every mass has an escape velocity?
    The EH of a BH has an escape velocity of 300,000kms/sec [186,000 m/p/second]
    Since that is the constant speed of light, it does not escape.
    When a photon is inside a BH, the spacetime curvature is such that escape velocity exceeds "c", therefor the unlucky photon is taken for a ride to the center/singularity of the BH.
     
  13. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    This may be of interest
    Speculative Sunday: Can a Black Hole Explode?

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    Figure 1. The Supernova Remnant Cassiopeia A, all that remains of a star that ran out of fuel. It contains either a neutron star or a black hole… could that black hole someday explode? (Image created using data from the Hubble, Spitzer, and Chandra space telescopes.)
    A Big Bang......?
    http://www.thephysicsmill.com/2015/06/14/speculative-sunday-can-a-black-hole-explode/
     
  14. Write4U Valued Senior Member

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    Question: Is energy infinitely compressible? If not, at what threshold density does the equation inside a BH trigger a mega-quantum event where collapse s reversed and a mega-quantum energetic expansion results in a Big Bang where all sequestered energy is released as a white hole, creating a new universe in an act of self similar procreation.

    Making copies of itself. A natural way of universal 3D printing.......

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  15. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    I learn that heat can be transmitted by conduction, convection and radiation.
    So, the heat radiation from the Sun does not really need photon to play a role, right?
     
  16. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    This question is too (deliberately?) stupid to be worth answering.
     
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  17. paddoboy Valued Senior Member

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    It has already been explained to you about light/photons having a duel nature. Heat is radiated through space as waves.
     
  18. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    You are so quick to catch on

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  19. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah I sometimes answer these regardless, if I think another innocent reader might wonder what the answer is. But that doesn't apply to this one.
     
  20. Saint Valued Senior Member

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    heat is kinetic energy of the body's atoms , if it is solid, it is vibrational energy.
    a black body can radiate heat,but there is no light
     
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  21. exchemist Valued Senior Member

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    OK, since Michael has given this a like, there may be a point in disentangling it.

    First, the sun is a pretty good example of a black body. A "black body" in physics does not mean something emitting no visible light. "Black" is used to denote the property of being a perfect emitter and absorber of radiation, with no reflection from the surface. A "black body" is thus the opposite of a perfectly reflecting body, rather than the opposite of a "white" body.

    Second, any body at a temperature above absolute zero will emit electromagnetic radiation. Whether you call it "light" or "heat" does not matter. It is just EM radiation.

    People sometimes use the term heat as shorthand for radiation in the frequency range I indicated in post 4, that excites vibration and rotations in molecules of matter.
     
  22. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    No.

    People often confuse the words "heat" and "temperature", and what you just said is evidence of that confusion.

    Black body radiation is electromagnetic, which includes light. The Sun is approximately a black body radiator, and you'll have noticed it produces some light.
     
  23. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

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    I have a new wooden spoon

    Thought would try it out

    Sorry

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