How is prayer supposed to work?

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Jennifer Murphy, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,968
    Liar Liar, pants on fire!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!



    See how they run for shelter, and lie through their teeth, so they can maintain their delusion.

    Jan.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Michael 345 New year. PRESENT is 72 years oldl Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,077
    https://www.quora.com/qemail/track_...766073&stories=4104077436&uid=LGxX9t21OZT&v=0

    Again I think this is a example of prayer supposedly working and again no indication of how it works

    I sort of share your frustration but at the end of the day I really don't believe in supernatural magic which then fits with there is no there there to work

    Why can't you see a invisible dragons? Would it be because they are not there?

    Keep the non faith but if you do find dragons please let me know I would love to see one

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. BlueSky Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    159

    Good question Jennifer.

    Prayer is just like any communication. We talk to people, and God likes it when we talk to Him. He’s hear our every thought and word.

    When our requests line up with what God wants or likes, He is more likely to reply. He has a plan, and is willing to help in fruition of this plan. He does not answer always the way we want, but he does answer. Even a non answer is an answer, when the totality of scripture is consider. I’ve seen this happen more times than I can count. The key is to know his will is from scripture. That’s the starting point. If we don’t know scripture we don’t know his will or the big picture is. Scripture is his message to us.

    Our obedience is paramount as well. Before anyone gets too excited about that statement, consider this analogy.

    Is a parent more likely to answer or give a child what they want if they are being good and following house rules? Yes.

    Is a parent more likely to give a child something if their requests line up with the family plan. Yes.

    If your heart is in the right place, the parent is far more likely to help said child.

    Most only ask when times are bad, I am guilty of this. I think if we are being honest, we all do this. How would you feel if your child only came to you, in times of need and trouble, ignoring your relationship ?

    Hope this helps, comments/questions welcome.
     
    Jennifer Murphy likes this.
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Jennifer Murphy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    239
    Thanks, BlueSky, for the thoughtful reply. (I was about to abbreviate your name, but, well, ...)

    My question is not about whether god answers prayer, but if prayer works. Let me see if I can clarify.

    I am specifically and exclusively asking about prayer by one person for the benefit of another. If Person A prays that Person B will get better, what happens? Does B actually get better and, if so, how does that work?

    Most (all?) of your examples appear to be about a person praying for themselves -- that is, for something that they want for themselves. I am not interested in that. Can you shed any light on the situation above where A prays for B.
     
  8. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,252
    No. (And, in some studies the prayed-for actually got worse).
     
  9. BlueSky Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    159

    Hi Jennifer, I will try and explain.

    We can pray intercessory prays for people. Many examples of this in the Bible. Think it of this way.

    Imagine if you worked in a major company and were VERY close to the CEO.

    One day, you asked him or her to help another employee with something. If the CEO liked you very much, they would be more inclined to do what you asked, if it was within their power to do so, and even more so, if it aligned with the companies mission. Make sense?

    Same idea with God.
     
    Jennifer Murphy likes this.
  10. BlueSky Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    159
    Yes, the reality is, we always don’t get want we want. God sees the big picture. He works every out in the end for those who love him, and sometimes this does not align with what we want. Same idea with kids, they ask, but we see the big picture.

    Romans 8:28
    28 And we know that in all things God works for the good have been called according to his purpose.
     
  11. Dywyddyr Penguinaciously duckalicious. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    19,252
    [QUOTE="BlueSky"]Romans 8:28
    28 And we know that in all things God works for the good have been called according to his purpose.[/quote]
    And that quote sort of wrecks the idea of intercessionary prayer.
    IF the request is in line with the "purpose" then it's granted, otherwise not.
    But, equally, if the outcome is in line with that "purpose" then the praying isn't required at all.

    Given this "purpose"[sup]1[/sup] then prayer itself is moot.

    1 Plus, of course, that "purpose" would include suffering, joy and everything else including some individuals being atheist/ believers of - according to you - the wrong religion. (And thereby damned from the get-go). Nice, really nice.
     
  12. Jennifer Murphy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    239
    OK, thanks. Let me see if I have this right. Are you saying that God will act on my prayer on behalf of my friend if (a) He likes me very much and (b) it is aligned with His overall plan? If so, I have a couple of follow up questions:
    1. Doesn't God love all of us "very much"?
    2. Does he love some of us more than others? And, if so, is he more likely to grant requests (on behalf of others) from those he loves more?
    May I ask if you are a member of an organized religion and, if so, which one, and, if not, what your general faith is?
     
  13. Sarkus Hippomonstrosesquippedalo phobe Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,298
    So basically it works via selection bias, and through unfalsifiable processes... if it works, that's evidence of prayer working... if it doesn't then that's God seeing the big picture that we can't see?
     
    Dywyddyr likes this.
  14. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,886
    No, you answered with magic. Look:

    Jennifer asked how it works. Your response contains no how whatever; it's simply because.

    That's magical. The fact that you attribute magical activity to God makes it no less magical.


    What you would have needed to do, Jan, to address Jennifer's question, is describe the mechanism by which God hears prayers and decides how to dole out fixes. Which ones? What criteria? How soon? etc. That's what she's after.
    But you don't have those answers, as you admitted.
     
    Jennifer Murphy likes this.
  15. Jennifer Murphy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    239
    I would appreciate it if people would not attack and belittle the answers from those who believe. I am not interested in proving anyone right or wrong. I just want to understand how those who believe see it. If those of us who do not believe belittle those who do, it will be much harder for them to participate in the discussion.

    Thanks
     
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,886
    Well, this is a science forum. It is our right and responsibility to call out flawed logic, should we encounter it. Unfalsifiability is a keystone of rational analysis.

    I grant that may not be the kind of answer that's useful to you, but you can't fault people on a science discussion forum for answering in-kind.
     
  17. Jennifer Murphy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    239
    A couple of points:
    1. If you were doing a peer-review of a scientific paper, then absolutely, fire away. No holds barred. This is not that.
    2. I asked how people "believe" things work. I am collecting data. If you were an anthropologist doing research on some primitive Amazonian tribe and you "called them out" every time they did something unscientific, you would never get valid data about their culture and beliefs.
    3. There is a big difference between asking questions and belittling. This is my thread. If you want to belittle what people believe, do it somewhere else.
    Yes, I can, and I just did. Besides, you did not answer "in kind". BlueSky's comments seemed sincere to me and he never once attacked or belittled atheists or even religion haters. I believe he was trying his best to answer my questions. I sincerely hope that you have not thrown a monkey wrench into the works.
     
  18. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,968
    How did I answer with, “magic”?

    What magical activity have I attributed to God?

    Telll her to ask herself how she would hear a request/prayer, and how she would decide to dole out fixes. Then tell her to learn about God,
    After that, tell her to get back to me.

    I have a feeling she won’t do that, because she is only interested in increasing her denial and rejection,

    I can see her coming a mile off,

    Elaborate.

    Don’t know what you’re talking about.

    At a time of God’s choosing.

    No she’s not.

    I could take it to another level, but there is no need, because there is no real inquiry.

    I think her interest in prayer, and God are suspect, or she would gladly answer my questions, if it meant there is a chance she could become enlightened.

    Jan.
     
  19. Jennifer Murphy Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    239
    I think you are, as my mother, in her colorful rural lingo used to say, "trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear". I originally thought Jan was sincere and had something useful to offer, but since her first post, she has gone completely off the rails. Nothing she says even makes sense. Now I suspect that she is just a troll and I will have nothing further to do with her/him/it.
     
  20. Seattle Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,790
    If God likes you and you are praying for a child with cancer he may cure the cancer if he likes the kid or he may let cancer kill the kid if that fit into his greater plan. It's simple.
     
  21. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,886
    Other than Jan, where have I done this? I'm not deliberately trying to derail the thread.
     
  22. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,886
    The question was "how does it work". Your answer was "because it does." That's not a "how" answer; that's magic.

    Indeed. Your questions are judgemental - and biased - to believers like yourself: "Do you accept God?" etc. You're preaching, not discussing.

    I will respect Jennifer's desire to not engage in this with you.
     
  23. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    18,886
    BTW, not germane to the discussion, but Jan self-identifies as a he.
     
    Jan Ardena likes this.

Share This Page